This is worrying

rimm

We may be having trouble seeing any of our heros if nicolas sarkozy has his way-reeks of Nazi Germany this..

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-11301307

dennis

not that i agree with what's going on... but the situation is a bit more complex than just deporting "gypsies"...from what i understand ( and i can be totally wrong so i apologize in advance for any BS i might say and welcome any correction) it has to do with illegal immigration and therefore does not affect the manouche gypsies who were born and raised in france...

that doesn't make things any better but just saying... it has to do with the eastern european gypsies sneaking into france and living there and all that...

i think it's a very tricky and delicate situation to which i dont really have an answer...

but you guys might be interested to know that sometimes even these eastern european gypsies aren't appreciated by the manouche gypsies themselves....

Jeff Moore

Dennis,
I'm sure you know the situation in Eastern Europe (and South of our border) was never great. When the East collapsed though, the factory jobs ended and the vultures came in and bought everything in a fire sale.
Globilization will drive people into the last places where a decent life can be had.
I don't know French but I bet they got a word like "alien" in their media too.
One small planet, same wicked economy everywhere, till we change it.
The alternative is to accept hate and separation as normal.

CalebFSU

I know this isn't a political forum, but Dennis is right this doesn't include French born Manouche, Inter- Roma politics is interesting to say the least.

the real question is this, where does the EU stand on this, If I understand correctly Romania and Bulgaria are EU nations which means their citizens can travel freely among member countries, so it isn't really the same as the U.S.-Mexico immigration situation which is a whole other can of worms.

Like I said I know this isn't a political forum, So if someone knows the answer to the E.U. think feel free to PM me.

rimm

I think the part that troubles me is the wording in the documents 'Clear 300 camps by the end of the year' etc etc. The other facet of this is that after a while, regardless of origin, the travelling community could all be lumped in together. I can't see it being that hard of a jump to think that the average Joe would find t hard to see the diference between someone from the Eastern bloc and a manouche residing in France. From my own point of view, during the height of the troubles in Belfast I was victim to political abuse whilst living in London. Always beware a president's poll rating when its sagging.

klaatu

CalebFSU wrote:

the real question is this, where does the EU stand on this, If I understand correctly Romania and Bulgaria are EU nations which means their citizens can travel freely among member countries, so it isn't really the same as the U.S.-Mexico immigration situation which is a whole other can of worms.

This is from an AP article in this morning's paper:
"France’s deportations of Gypsies are "a disgrace" and probably break EU law, the European Union’s executive body declared Tuesday in a stinging rebuke that set up a showdown with French President Nicolas Sarkozy’s conservative government ... France could ultimately be slapped with a fine by the European Court of Justice if its expulsions are found to have breached EU law."

Re the travel question, "As EU citizens, [the Roma] have a right to travel to France, but must get papers to work or live there in the long term."

Jeff Moore

The commonality between the deportations (US-France) is that it is economic. One big economy, many bad localized situations. The other is that hate, force, and a denial of process displace or take apart families. The EU will only complain unless and until the public force a reaction. There is a three month limit to "travel".

CalebFSU

Jeff I do agree with you there that a lot of this is based on poor economic conditions and scapegoating.

Charlie Ayers

Here is another article:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/17/world ... ml?_r=2&hp

Super Mario Maccaferri

Scapegoating is the word...

This is not only a disgrace for France (I'm French) but also, if not MOSTLY a way to distract attention from the scandals regarding the ruling Party that have risen lately.

In all, Roma population in France is estimated around 12,000 15,000 only, which in a 60+ million people country is not really a threatening invasion. Everything regarding this story is mixed up, gipsies, travellers, roma people all amalgamated into a big scarecrow shoved into the people's sight to scare them up and allow them to unleash their intolerance (we french are pretty good at this), while allowing government to do its dirty business and hide away traces of its past scandals ...

There was an official order from our "minister of interior" (chief of cops) that precisely stated that the police was to evacuate illegal camps - quote : "in priority those occupied by the Roma". replace "the Roma" by any other word and what do you get ? Well something that reminds me of dark hours.
Yesterday the representatives of most Manouche and "voyageurs" (travellers) associations said that there have not been any cases of their camps evacuated like those of the Roma : all have found solutions when they were told to go, and have found new places to stay at, contrary to the Roma, who are not only driven away, but in many cases see their caravans - when they have one - destroyed.

That said : I have one big problem with the Roma : when they are in Paris, thay play music in the subway... And play only crappy standard hits vaguely linked to Paris, for tourists, and NEVER any good, genuine traditional stuff. Unbearable !

CalebFSU

Thanks for the insight man!! It really is a troubling situation.