Sound hole in upper side?

Craig Bumgarner

Anyone have any experience with a sound hole in the upper side, upper bout, typically oval shaped about the same size as a petite bouche. These were in vogue 5-6 years ago and then faded away. The fade away suggests they may have just been a fade.

The purpose, as I understand it, was to allow the player to hear the guitar better.

I'm getting hard of hearing and I'd like to be able to hear my guitar better when gigging. I have an older guitar that I'd consider experimenting with by cutting in such a hole if the general experience with them was positive. Any down sides? I suppose you could drop things into the hole and would get more dirt inside the guitar. I've seen at least one example where the builder installed a heavy wire mesh screen, like you see on a microphone cover, across the hole from the inside.



Craig

klaatu

If you smoke, it would make a more convenient ashtray than the hole on the top.

Craig Bumgarner

Not to mention being a decent drink holder. But that would sort of defeat the alleged purpose would it not. Anyhow, still interest in hearing about it.

CB

HotTinRoof

Don't know about the fading away part as they seem pretty common on the country music scene. McPherson makes some beautiful examples.

http://mcphersonguitars.com/

Craig Bumgarner

HotTinRoof wrote:

Don't know about the fading away part as they seem pretty common on the country music scene. McPherson makes some beautiful examples.

Ah, the McPhersons look like the hole in the top is moved to the side. Moving the hole around the top has always been part of the luthier's experiments. There are many variations.

What I'm talking about is a second hole in the side (ribs if your prefer) as well as the hole in the top. Below is a pic of Bob Holo's Shelley Park I copped from Djangobooks from when he was selling it, shows what I have in mind. Are these common today in other guitar styles? In Selmer style guitars at least, this option now seems uncommon. I wonder why?

Craig

Craig Bumgarner

BTW, here is what Shelley Park has to say about them on her website:

http://www.parkguitars.com/q-soundport-effect/

"The effect of a sound port is proportional to the size of the sound hole. The effect on an oval hole can be dramatic, as the net amount of escaping air is almost doubled. This doesn’t seem to compromise the instruments forward projection, the overall volume usually increases.

The effect on a D hole is subtler as the air flow is already maximized by the original design.

In both cases there is noticeable better monitoring for the player, again more pronounced with an oval hole, where there is noticeable air stream displacement from the side port.

On an oval hole model a sound port also allows many of the trapped overtones and lower frequencies to escape, adding sustain and a wide range of color. This effect is harder to detect on a D hole."

thickpick

Just today, Patrus posted a video of Troy Chapman from Pearl Django playing a guitar with an upper soundhole.

HotTinRoof

This is eye opening, very different than the McPherson I posted. Haven't seen this kind of guitar before!

Craig Bumgarner

Craig Bumgarner wrote:

BTW, here is what Shelley Park has to say about them on her website:

http://www.parkguitars.com/q-soundport-effect/

"The effect of a sound port is proportional to the size of the sound hole. The effect on an oval hole can be dramatic, as the net amount of escaping air is almost doubled......

New York luthier Bernie Lehmann said essentially the same thing in an article on his versions of Selmer guitars 7-8 years ago. He praised the side hole saying "that cute little hole (meaning the petite bouche hole in the top) is just too darn small to move enough air". The side hole adds more area to openings in the box.

I'm not sure he or Shelley Park actually mean "air" moving through the hole. It seems to me the volume of air displaced by the moving top is minuscule and "air" is not pumping through the hole as the guitar is played at sufficient quantity that even a petite bouche, small oval, would restrict. My guess is they mean more opening area to pass sound waves through the air from the inside to the outside.

CB

noodlenot

this is interesting, as i´ve been thinking of soundports on selmer guitar design as of lately.

soundports, IIRC, were developed by the great robert ruck and provide an excellent means for the player to hear himself in a way similar to the audience, with greater exposure of transients. there´s more to them, though. if you want, give this a read: http://www.alcarruthluthier.com/Downloads/sidePorts.pdf

as for fading away, i don´t know. they are pretty popular in the folk / steel string acoustic guitar scene ATM, and most luthiers offer them at an extra-charge. i´ve even seen a tornavoz installed on a soundport...

on selmer guitars, OTOH, the picture posted is the 1st i´ve seen of a guitar with sideport, but all the geist of the selmer guitar thing seems geared toward the graal of replicating the sound and vintage patine of the older models, wich by virtue of it being a conservative enterprise is by definition less prone to this kind of innovations, but i register the fact with great joy.

cheers,
Miguel.

noodlenot

another interesting debate on soundports : http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/view ... =soundport, a little further down.

cheers!