Violin too quiet for jam session ?

AndyW

My first time 'out' at the hot club of Glasgow last night on violin, but I felt i was too quiet to overcome 3 or 4 fairly "percussive" gitane / selmac guitars. So what do you guys do to get some volume at the GJ jam on your violins? Should i think mic & mini-amp or look for a LOUDER setup ??
-andy-

crookedpinky

Just scrape harder or get some more hairs on the bow. You should have nabbed some of that donkeys tail while you were at it.......

AndyW

When at a French festival:
"bisous the donkey" is a lucky custom, "baiser the donkey" is a 6 months jail sentence.

What was that rechargable amp you had the other week with the archtop, Alan ??
it has a mic input & a clean channel ??

crookedpinky

It's one of these
http://www.instruments2go.co.uk/Roland- ... tAodMVwL2Q

They're a whole range of them now. The one I've got only has one input but I would say it's not great with acoustic pickups - fine with magnetic pickups and udersaddle but not great with stick on bugs or mics.

You'd be better off with something like this
http://www.thomann.de/gb/artec_a15c.htm

Alan

MichaelHorowitz

Hi Andy,

Rhythm guitars can really get out of control at jams sometimes. Even one inconsiderate, overbearing player can drown out the soloist. Three or more just makes it impossible. Not sure if this is the case at the jam you attended, but it may be worth reminding the accompanists that if they can't hear the soloist then they should play more quietly until they can.

Unfortunately this happens all the time and just creates a situation where everyone is competing to be the loudest and very little good music gets played.

Generally the violin should be really easy to hear as that instrument is generally a lot louder than a guitar.

Good luck!

Michael

dennis

when it comes to gypsy jazz, the instrument is rarely to blame, as michael said, it's all in the player and the people you play with... unfortunately, 90% (a figure that i just came up with haha, no scientific backing) of people playing this style don't have proper rhythm tone or understanding of it, which is why in all the pro recordings of the big stars, it's always the same 10 guys or so... hono, samy ,mathieu, nous'che, etc...

crookedpinky

Hi Andy

you could actually hear the violin so maybe it's a bit like some of the guitars where the player hears a different - quieter - sound from those on the receiving end. And - let's not forget - you've only been playing the thing for how long ?

Michaels spot on with criticism of guitarists and you were sitting next to me and my Busato ( name dropper that I am ) and I was cranking it out pretty harshly but, and I emphasise the but, if I hadn't then we'd have fallen apart more often on songs as people aren;t doing their homework and learning the material.

And - finally - let's not forget the almighty volume you generate when you pick the sax/clarinet. Keep practicing and you'll get there with the fiddle too.

Alan the Donkey Fiddler

klaatu

Michael and Denis are so right. I can't count the number of times at Django in June where a jam session got totally ruined by someone who drowned every soloist out with his overly loud rhythm playing. Usually, it wasn't just a matter of volume alone but also rotten technique, as Denis says - chords ringing instead of being cut off, sometimes loud open strings, in some cases a very bluegrassy sort of sound rather than anything resembling la pompe. It was mostly weekend players who were guilty of this, because the ones attending the full camp usually knew better. There have been a few instances where I just had to quietly pack up my guitar and look for another jam.

I well remember my first DiJ rhythm lessons from Denis back in 2007. He kept telling me I was too loud. When I suggested that maybe it was my very loud guitar that was the problem, he took it and played a beautiful soft yet forceful rhythm, handed it back and said "It's not the guitar." Lesson learned, I hope.

DJM

Hello Andy.
There is surely an acoustic solution for playing with two or three guitarists!
One of them is to first make sure that you are not loud enough.
Have you recorded yourself amongst other musicians?
Some violins project further without sounding loud!
some are quite loud but don't sound so to the violinist directly!
I often think that others are louder when they are not!
Sometimes the bow is incriminated...when did you last have a re-hair? the bow does a lot for the sound
you should do a bow trying session to recognize how different they sound.
Your sound-post may not be under enough pressure...
How old are your strings?
All this to say you should really go see a professional luthier and spend some time testing things out with him...
Nothing can replace a professional advice!
I spend at least an hour or two every week at my luthier's workshop chatting, trying out violins, bows, etc.
You will see how important and agreeable the exchange can get!
Finally, if your luthier isn't friendly enough... go meet another one!
Cheers.
DJM

www.danieljohnmartin.com

PS there are a few videos on my page with Romane at the Q in London. On this occasion Romane was slightly amplified, Andy Crowdy on base was too, Ducato the rythmic guitarist was acoustic and as you will see I had a mic just behind me which I didn't use. I think the mix seems correct just like that... What do you think?

AndyW

Thanks for all the replies, everyone. I felt a bit like i was starting an international incident , which wasn't the plan. I've turned the violin to place the F-hole under my left ear a little more, that's helping.
only eight guitarists at the jam session the last time I was there, we get 12 or 15 some nights ;-).
-
partly my problem is a register thing, in first position a lot of my notes get lost amongst the guitar chords at the same or higher frequencies, perhaps, but i'm not confident enough in 3rd and above, where the violin might sound 'over the top' of the guitars... Ach , well, its interesting learning how it sounds amongst other instruments, so very different from playing at home / with playalong tracks or solo. DJM - I've only spoken to one luthier, but i got a distinct impression she was too busy working for professional/orchestral clients to sit & talk to the Gj nooby. My 'best" bow is a second hand one, and could possibly benefit from a rehair, maybe i'll even try for a new bow.
Anyway no violin at all last week, i might get back to it this week , try some of those grappelli transcriptions ... slowly ;-).
_-A-_

Natalie Henderson

I have started learning violin and enjoying every bit of it.Looking forward to learn from this forum.Whenever I try to open he link you provided andy it is giving error.
Relocating to Australia