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Transcribing, is it worth the effort

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  • mac63000mac63000 Fox Island, WANew Geronimo Mateos Jazz B
    Posts: 248
  • Lango-DjangoLango-Django Niagara-On-The-Lake, ONModerator
    Posts: 1,868

    The classical composer that really floors me is Debussy..

    ...how did he ever imagine such wonderful musical landscapes?

    There is no precedent for his style... he just whipped it up out of moonbeams... am I wrong? If so, tell me...

    I believe Django was also Debussy fan, as were Duke Ellington and Bix and probably most of the early jazz generation...

    mac63000Twang
    Paul Cezanne: "I could paint for a thousand years without stopping and I would still feel as though I knew nothing."

    Edgar Degas: "Only when he no longer knows what he is doing does the painter do good things.... To draw, you must close your eyes and sing."

    Georges Braque: "In art there is only one thing that counts: the bit that can’t be explained."
  • Posts: 4,962

    That's another thing, so many incredible players I heard say "I didn't do anything in particular really, I just played a lot". So in that sense Stephane is right.

    vanmalmsteenbillyshakes
    Every note wants to go somewhere-Kurt Rosenwinkel
  • Russell LetsonRussell Letson Prodigy
    Posts: 365

    Don't know whether it's necessary to write down a "transcription"--but it's a very common pattern to spend serious time, as our Minnesota treasure Pat Donohue explains it, sittin' in the basement, stealin' from Chet.

    Buco
  • vanmalmsteenvanmalmsteen Diamond Springs ,CANew Latch Drom F, Eastman DM2v, Altamira m30d , Altimira Mod M
    edited July 2020 Posts: 337
  • bopsterbopster St. Louis, MOProdigy Wide Sky PL-1, 1940? French mystery guitar, ‘37 L-4
    Posts: 513

    If I listen to recordings of myself and hear “noodling” (no strong melodic ideas, missing the changes, playing with hesitation vs conviction), I know I don’t know the tune, and am not hearing things in my head. How do I improve this? Know the language better, and the language IS what Django or Bird or Louis played. That’s the vocabulary.

    I’ve only heard a handful of master players who have said that they never sat down and learned the solos of the creators. And those players say they listened and tried to play Like them, but if you listen closely, they are quoting liberally from them.

    If I hear someone playing a tune, and they don’t quote anyone, phrase things without stylistic elements found in the genre, and are rhythmically removed from said genre, they sound like a bland amorphous mess. What type of conversations or writing would we have, without referencing foundations of the language?

    BucoPetrovTwangwimbillyshakes
  • Posts: 4,962

    Gypsy Jazz, is harder to codify. Is whatever Django played gypsy jazz?

    Kinda like when Chet Atkins said " no man, I just play guitar" in response to him being recognized as a country musician. Django played jazz, that's all he wanted to do. The genre got codified long after his passing within the Gypsy community carrying his torch. I think where he struck a musical gold is trying to sound like a swing big band with his 5 piece group. The way I see it the original quintet was an attempt to play the music they heard Americans play with 10-15 people orchestra. The rhythm guitar style came from trying to make it sound like big band rhythm section including drums. A good part of his phrasing came from trying to imitate the sounds of horns and stride piano.

    mac63000BillDaCostaWilliamsBonesbillyshakes
    Every note wants to go somewhere-Kurt Rosenwinkel
  • bopsterbopster St. Louis, MOProdigy Wide Sky PL-1, 1940? French mystery guitar, ‘37 L-4
    edited July 2020 Posts: 513

    A good part of his phrasing came from trying to imitate the sounds of horns and stride piano.

    His rhythm playing with the walking bass on “Alabamy Bound” and “I know that you know” are the best I’ve heard.

    BucoBonesrudolfochristJojo
  • vanmalmsteenvanmalmsteen Diamond Springs ,CANew Latch Drom F, Eastman DM2v, Altamira m30d , Altimira Mod M
    edited July 2020 Posts: 337

    How about his bass walk and rhythm playing on mystery Pacific!!

    mac63000bopsterBucoBonesrudolfochrist
  • mac63000mac63000 Fox Island, WANew Geronimo Mateos Jazz B
    edited July 2020 Posts: 248

    So many great examples. Alabamy Bound also has great rhythm and walking bass. Tell you what though, Mystery Pacific always puts a smile on my face.

    L50EF15Buco
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