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There is huge variety in gypsy guitars - just listen to group jam sessions and the sounds are all different. I just got out my Gitane 310 Lulo Reinhardt model after probably six months of not being played at all, and I was immediately impressed and couldn't believe I was about to list it for sale! No way, it's staying with me. That's having been playing my Dupont Busato and Yohann Cholet Favino exclusively for six months. They're all such different guitars - the Busato fires all its sound straight out the sound hole so as a player, you're not quite aware of how crazy it is. The Cholet is very deep and woody, but soulful and sweet too. Both necks play like a dream. The Gitane neck is a little thinner (not as thin as the 250M as mentioned) but the sound is loud and clear to the player - very open and a superb even tone and volume across the whole fretboard. So in conclusion, embrace the change you're feeling - it might just take some time to appreciate it!! I suppose another solution is to only have one guitar (yeah right!!!). Use your 503 for getting really stuck into manouche music, and save the Altamira for mixed styles and solo playing? The next thing is, can we see some pictures of your guitars please, and a video maybe?
Sure thing I'll do that this weekend
This is an interesting point. Your technique would have probably adapted in those years too. The guitars want to be played in a certain way, and can be unforgiving/harsh sounding to those who bring a technique from other styles.
The same problem applies going from GJ technique to other guitars too, sadly. I've lost most of the light touch required for electric (use it or lose it) and find their thin necks / floppy strings to be really uncomfortable now.
Completely true for me as well. I think these can be highly versatile guitars, but there is a technique to getting there. Honestly have only playing these guitars for a few years now, there's not another style of guitar I would want. For my ears at least, Django had one of the finest electric tones, as well as his acoustic. These guitars can do anything, and for me at least, sound a whole lot better than some of the stuff from more traditional electric archtops.
So long story but back when I started rest stroke in 2016, I came from playing a vintage Epi Triumph Regent and a modern ES335, both of which had necks more comparable to an electric...maybe not super thin like a C-style Strat or something, but certainly nowhere near the more "classical" guitar profile of most GJ guitars. Anyway, because I played Freddie Green style for many years and was a huge Django fan due to the obvious 4-to-the-bar comping similarities (well, and the fact Django's mind blowing lmao), when I saw the Gitane DG-250M appear for sale locally at a great price, I scooped it up immediately (I'm in Milwaukee and these guitars don't appear too frequently, to say the least lol).
Anyway, I played on that guitar for close to 4 years and as my skills progressed, I noticed that the neck profile was extremely shallow in comparison to like basically every other GJ guitar owned by friends/acquaintances I had a chance to play - most of my friends called it a "shredder" neck because of how much it played like an electric. Anyway, I ended up saving for a luthier guitar and bought my Dupont in 2019...to say it had a profoundly positive effect on playing would be an understatement and I owe all of the that to the more "proper" (or even "true") neck profile - suddenly, playing huge arpeggios like in this exercise from Adrian became so much more fluid and accessible:
This was one of the first exercises I played that greatly increased my faculty with double down strokes and now, 4-5 years later, I can almost play it at Adrian's tempo. Obviously, that also takes practice and dedication - I would say try to practice for 30 minutes per day if possible and devote 5-10 on any particular exercise to really become proficient in it. Another great song to learn is the head to Minor Blues - the arpeggio riff over the Cm is a fantastic exercise that can be reinterpreted into so many other rifs/motifs!
But back to the original point, a more "regular" neck on a Django box just really helps to translate the rest stroke technique...well, at least in my experience so ymmv. Also, all I can say is keep practicing - first 2 years were the worst for me, so many blisters and over-bending of the wrist. On that note, if you can learn from a pro...DO IT! I had a couple mentors helping but for the most part, I'm self-taught through videos and books...I've taken a couple lessons with Antoine and even over video, he immediately corrected flaws in my technique and gave me great, yet simple explanations on how to correct certain subtleties he noticed in my mechanics.
tl;dr - along with practice and devotion to the style, the neck on my Dupont is what made me the player I am today
Same issue going back to electric, fortunately I am in a Nat King Cole style Trio so I have had to get my feel back for electric. I am really happy I took the gypsy jazz journey as it has really helped my electric playing but getting back to electric was uncomfortable for a bit.
www.scoredog.tv
@Scoredog love to hear you're in a King Cole style Trio -- any recordings? Oscar Moore was a huge influence on my pre-Django swing playing and we covered quite a few King Cole Trio tunes in the swing group I used to play in, same with Duke, Basie, Slim & Slam (hence my user name) and some Django as well...KCT was such a tasty group, still some of the hippest shit ever recorded.
I was going to write the following in your other thread, but I deleted it before posting... When I commented that you can't go wrong with any of the guitars that were listed and suggested that's true, what I didn't write but was thinking was this: it's hard to find the one that will speak to you personally. Many people here went through many nice, even great guitars because of it. I know I played two guitars that knocked me off my feet with how awesome I thought they were. Their owners eventually sold them, they weren't "it" for them.
Your coworkers are likely not saying the 503 is an amazing guitar just to make you feel better. They probably really thought that and probably is an amazing guitar. Try to play it as much as you can, especially play rhythm hard, let it start breathing, vibrating and breaking in. It was sitting dormant and unplayed for quite a while. Even 10 hours of playing time will improve it. Make sure it's well setup, even if you have to spend a little extra, if you're not doing that kind of work, it'll be worth it. Make sure the frets are perfect, dial in the neck relief and the action.
Finally, when I pick up my Strat I feel like I have bear paws. Eventually my hands settle in but in the beginning it's very awkward.
Finally-finally, I finally learned that Adrien Moignard arepggio exercise, that video pops up at me all the time, I figured it's a sign.
And because Soundslice and @adrian is awesome....
Finally-finally, I finally learned that Adrien Moignard arepggio exercise, that video pops up at me all the time, I figured it's a sign.
Sorry for more thread drift but I really do think this is one of the best lessons out there and not just for rest stroke technique building but also because it shows him playing a diatonic scale in chords while adding chromaticism employing all 12 notes in between each chord of the scale - very solid intro into scale/chord theory that's easily expanded into modal theory while also forcing one into playing diminished arpeggios (again, easily expanded into diminished & half-diminished chords/scales), the latter of which is imo the hardest aspect of this style for western-raised ears to "hear" at first (well, at least it was initially for me lol).
And because Adrian's very quick in expressing some of this, to anyone who may have missed/misunderstood what Adrian's saying early on or is confused about it, play an EM scale in chords (E, F#m, G#m, A, B, C#m, D#ø). After that, Adrian adds in diminished arps chromatically to the EM chord scale (F°, G°, Bb°, C°, D°). How the modes are extrapolated from this is simple, play an EM scale and start it on each note of the scale while - voila, you're now playing all the modes of EM. Obviously, plenty of great GJ players out there don't know they're even they're doing this sometimes; I mean, in a DC video featuring Bireli, he famously didn't know the term "pentatonic" even tho he very much knew pentatonic scales lol. But either way, knowing your modes can really expand improv capabilities in the style and the magic really starts to happen when you start playing & hearing modes that aren't necessarily "correct" in terms of key signature over any given major/minor chord - so much color can be added.
Of course, this is also all without even delving into the modes of melodic minor and/or the altered scale (kids who don't know the altered scale, learn it now - huge for this style).