Gonzalo's rhythm

Passacaglia

Thanks, Harry - that makes sense, as to the reasoning. "Wetness" in 2, 4 was my bane before, and seems like a reasonable approach for beginners. Great info.

Also interested in further thoughts on this notion of "full" gypsy voicings, if only low strings are used. Since DC's series (before I stopped playing, I relied on these quite a bit), my presumption has always been a full 1, 3 stroke, though heavily weighted to the low strings. There are a lot of voicings I prefer for their bass weight, anyway - but yes, I'm confused, if playing only the low strings, what to do with a m6th, say, on higher strings. Isn't the key to keep it bass-emphasized, a mellow, brushed attack, and short - but still use all the voice of the chord?

I know the only answer, really, is to listen to rhythm players one admires, and get their sound - but this time around, I am very seriously concentrating on rhythm only, and good technique, from the start; so appreciate more experienced players' thoughts.

Il Trovatore

Thanks Eddy! (I am also a lover of archtops as well, my first jazz guitar was a Gretsch Synchromatic!)

Denis' video lesson with Gonzalo really helped me out, his rhythm playing is pretty staccato, nice and huge.
I also got the Hono lesson and he plays that same way(I saw some else post on here about that too). Nice big sounding chords, Denis describes it as greasy. I like playing 6 and 6/9 chords with my thumb now, took some practise cuz I have small hands.

Bones

Per my lesson (albeit beginning) with G generally only the lower 4 strings (lower meaning bass side) for the 1 and 3 with the exception being something like a Dm in 5th (?) position where you need the minor 3rd on the B string to sound out the minor triad if necessary.

The stroke on the 1 and 3 is more like a rake motion pushing thru the strings and not a 'whip' like on the 2 and 4.

Not that I'm an expert, that's just my interpretation of what he was saying as best as I can recall.

Archtop Eddy

Thanks Harry for the clarification. Makes good sense to me.

I found this Youtube vid recently and it does a nice job of capturing the G-zone (as well as Andreas...) Only short shots of him playing rhythm but what it shows is crisp and closeup. Killer solo too! AE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2gf200PyuSk

Passacaglia

Thanks Eddy, that's a great clip. I don't know quite what it is about GB, but I always like listening to him. I think, in part, it's that no matter what he's doing, he never loses the melody, musicality. To be honest, there's a lot of modern GJ that can leave me cold - the comparison from my former life would be, "wizardry" on the plate, over intense extraction of the essence of "the thing" itself - but I never get this with GB. It might be his strong roots in blues, or his Argentine/Latin background....or more likely, just the fact the guy is immeasurably talented, an artist's soul and the technical chops to do what he needs to express that voice - but whatever it is, I always appreciate listening to him.

Edit to add: I realize the above makes me sound like I hate modern players, and am a pompous a$$ at the same time. The latter is probably true, but the former isn't.

I said it poorly. What I meant to say, is that listening to Django, as technically amazing as he was, I always get the sense it was the music, and not his skill, I was hearing. The same holds true for so much today - with the added benefit of evolution over the years. Where I go cold, is when I feel this sense that it is skill at the forefront, oftentimes but not always, sheer speed, and not a sense of warmth from the music itself. It's likely I don't have enough of an ear vocabulary, either, to distinguish a lot of nuance, that passes as "the same" for me. At any rate.....

seeirwin

In case this is of any use, I made a video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tElSQBZb4jA

Disclaimer: I'm not purporting to be an expert. These are just tips Gonzalo shared with me.

Also, Jeff Radaich- if you are watching this, I'm bracing myself for the endless shit you'll give me for posting this.

jeff562

Gonzalo is a total asshole why would you guys want to play like him ? !!!!

ha ha ha ha ha

Hello everybody !

Chris - nice video.


Well, the only thing I have to say to everyone that might help that I don't think (if they have I apologize) anyone has touched on about the 2 and 4 is this.....
Do not over-emphasize the 2 and 4 !
It is very common for players to do a subtle 1 and 3 and really get carried away on the 2 and 4. It's totally understandable because you feel that back-beat and you naturally want to hit it hard. Yes it's true that it might add some excitement but it will be at the cost of tone and most likely give the listener some ear fatigue. Listen to what he (Gonzalo) does and hear the 2 and 4 are very restrained compared to a lot of other players.

hope that helps you guys but I'm serious... Gonzalo is a total asshole.

Love

Jeff
ps
all you East Coasters - we will be out your way in March !

Passacaglia

seeirwin wrote:

In case this is of any use, I made a video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tElSQBZb4jA

Disclaimer: I'm not purporting to be an expert. These are just tips Gonzalo shared with me.

Also, Jeff Radaich- if you are watching this, I'm bracing myself for the endless shit you'll give me for posting this.

Really helpful vid, thanks.

Paul

Mitch

Hi guys,

Sorry I don't wanna break the party or being unpleasant with Gonzalo but I feel like a lot of people are missing the whole point here.
This is not the way to play la pompe.
There are a lot of discussion in France and abroad about this, being it gadjés or manouches.
Not everybody in France plays like that and loves that.
The strings have to ring, you have to hear the chords, the notes of the chords. That's what the 2nd and 4th beats are about
a pompe that makes "boum-click-boom-click" is annoying actually.
We can not understand that trend...
Even players from Alsace or germany that can have the most massive pompe (my favorite!) around let chords ring on all beats.

And I think that the best way to learn la pompe for beginners is just to play evenly the four beats with downstrokes. That's way Eugène Vées did back in 1947 acoustic or Barclay sessions where we can hear probably the driest pompe of Django's discography.

Let us remind the basics



Amen.

Pardon me if say things directly or in a rough way...

Passacaglia

Mitch, I do hear what you're saying, and if I have understood you correctly, the very thing you're talking about is something I'm coming to terms with. That said, would you not characterize the guys I've come to know as the "Young Lions," Adrien Moignard, Benoit Convert and Co., as simply evolving a sound, that was itself evolving in its day (early HCQF, early Joseph, Fapy today) with later Django?

I've made it a personal mission to keep voice in all 4 beats - as dry and crunchy as I can get it, and still maintain voice, a tough thing for me, anyway. Hono and Nous'che (and Denis C.) are my rhythm heroes. But I still appreciate the hell out of Gonzalo's rhythm, and guys like him. I do agree with Gonzalo, from Denis's DC Gypsy School site - bounces. In my opinion, it works. Just not the flavor I'm after, but as with all things, just a personal taste.