Gonzalo's rhythm

Jazzaferri

Dennis. Yputube reference seems to not have worked. I enjoyed your last post as well. Succinctly put.

Steveareno

One of the really cool aspects of this "style" that attracted me in the first place is how important and groovy the rythm playing is. A rock solid, stready bridge between the bass and lead. Lotsa chord changes to keep it interesting and drive the tune with a percussive beat (and no freaking drums). When the lead players lay out, they kinda sex things up like Django did during the other guy's break.
Swang on,

Buco

It would be interesting, historically speaking, to hear how this particular style of playing rhythm evolved?

I really do like this particular "Gonzalo" sound, it has a great bounce to it.
Which, that bounce, is an important factor in the overall sound along with what others said; swing feel, steady drive etc. All of us have listened to this genre for years and we'll be able to tell the same second when something doesn't sound right regardless of style.
But the example I mentioned before, about the two instructors, was that essentially they were both right, one sounding more traditionally, say the way Hono sounds, another more in a Gonzalo style.
But if you'd do it Gonzalo style in front of Hono style teacher you'd be corrected and vice versa, without explaining or saying "well that may be OK too" as long as you stick to the other aspects that will make you sound right in the end of your studies.
Don't know if it's that people instinctively defend their teaching or get emotionally attached to the sound they produce and then something else will sound wrong to their ears or simply they stick to the same thing for the sake of not confusing the student with too much information or...?
These are by the way greatly respected musicians in the gypsy jazz circles not run of the mill teachers, that I'm talking about. They both know what they are talking about for sure.
That's why again I like Dennis' input in this thread when he says that there is a room to breathe once you've studied and mastered the originals, what Jazzaferri (Jay?) also said.
That's what I heard when I read it and I'm hoping I'm reading it right.

Buco

Passacaglia wrote:

Mitch wrote:

Passacaglia about the "evolution of style" well I have nothing against it as long as the roots remain somewhere. We all have to realize we play a repertoire music based on the style of two men, Django and Grappelli. Like playing be-bop or stuff, it has rules that defines it.
You can mix it, change it a bit so that it doesn't die but if you loose bit by bit what makes the style then it won't exist anymore.

Mitch, I passionately agree. I consider myself almost pathologically orthodox in my ways - it's the kind of training I received as a French cook, and it's the food I made, professionally; it's why I chose, at 35, to enter a zen temple and martial arts dojo, to train as a disciple to a zen and martial master. It's actually a hindrance - I'm great on discipleship, less great on letting go and moving on.

It's a difficult point to call - at what point does evolution become abandonment? I am categorically unqualified to declare. I just know I am deeply indebted to a lot of people, Denis more than others, for providing a way in to playing this music that has grabbed my soul. And I stand in awe of so many players, who bring their special voice to bear on a form, and create something living. I don't want to play like all of them, but each of them has given of themselves genuinely, and I honor them accordingly.

I believe "the style" can't cease to exist no matter how it continues to evolve. When Miles left bebop and turned to exploring other things that didn't kill bebop.
As well as we all know that Django eventually left his 30's and 40's style format in favor of a more modern sound. Didn't he want to move toward bebop himself towards the end of his life?
Studying the originals respecting the traditions is a very important aspect, that I also hold true.

Paul did you read "Zen Guitar"? I love it, read parts of it all the time. It sounds like you might like it given what you mentioned.

Passacaglia

Buco, thanks for the heads up on Zen Guitar. On Amazon cart, looking forward to reading it.

Paul

Mitch

Yeah Buco you're right.

And a teacher remains a teacher, not a guru. But still he or she's a human being so each one plays differently.

Dennis you're right also about the accent stuff, it is about that. Not an seasy thing to catch, not mentionning the ability to make a jazz manouche guitar sound properly.
To me, 20 % only of gadjo players have a correct sound, regardless of their originating area or country.
And lucky you about Dorado's guitar. Man, you hold one of a piece of history now ;o) Very nice gift.

Interesting post...

Passacaglia

Mitch wrote:

And a teacher remains a teacher, not a guru.

I don't feel there's a difference, even if it's a momentary exchange.

Jazzaferri

Guru is the sanskit word for teacher

Jazzaferri

Ooops for some reason cant edit. SANSKRIT

Mitch

Passacaglia wrote:

Mitch wrote:

And a teacher remains a teacher, not a guru.

I don't feel there's a difference, even if it's a momentary exchange.

Wow, then come to me, I will teach you THE way, 2 hrs lesson only 2000 € !!

Just joking

To me a guru is someone telling you his way is the best, someone having too much influence on you, fooling you with big words an concept, keeping you in the limits...
I know some guys like that.
Jazzaferri thanks for the reminder, it's true that in India or Hindi culture a Guru is a rather trustful and wise person but I'm sure you know what I meant, in the occidental culture (or maybe just in France?) the meaning of Guru slept into designating sect leaders or people like that.
I know players that managed to convince their pupil to give them big money for "secrets".
So you have to think by yourself and throw away what seems far-stretched or unappropriate.
Just like "this is the only way to play La pompe".

A teacher should show you how to do stuff his way and let you know about the other ways so that you know exactly what you're learning with the guy in order to, at the end, play your own stuff.
Well that's the way I feel about it...