Lookng at Django through Givone-coloured glasses

Jazzaferri

Paul.

If you pick the ones that speak loudly to you you will develop your own vocabulary much quicker

You are getting it. It's ok to get so far into it that you use a comb for a pick, but a pick for a comb, :shock: :shock: that's really getting out there

Jay

Passacaglia

Jazzaferri wrote:

Paul.

If you pick the ones that speak loudly to you you will develop your own vocabulary much quicker

You are getting it. It's ok to get so far into it that you use a comb for a pick, but a pick for a comb, :shock: :shock: that's really getting out there

Jay

Thanks, Jay. Even after all this, I'm still not certain where I go from here, but that's the orthodox apprentice of my younger years (of French cooking, of Japanese martial and zen ways) speaking, accustomed to the surety of a codified approach. One thing I do know for certain, though - and it's almost embarrassing to admit this, as it's seems almost self-evident, now - man, surely nothing's to be gained from feeling there's something to be "crammed" for...in my case, I've wanted to achieve a certain quantum of lead ability in prep for Django in June, hoping for better chops than a very small set of arps or patterns - at 51, with graying and thinning hair....well, it's not been easy for this ego to admit he started playing late. I've almost entirely lost sight of the pleasure of this music, and the pleasure of its path...as ironic as that may sound, from one with a presumably better informed background. :oops:

Jazzaferri

Paul

Do you do scales at all?

Do you have band in a box?

I have an exercise that I do on sax now that may be of significant help

First the background. I play much worse when my ego is involved in note selection, or my conscious mind is involved in any way in my playing. I strive to just listen to the music around or if on my own surrender to the music within.


What I have done is created a band in a box chord setup where biab plays 15 bars of a major chord followed,by a 2 5 split on bar 16 then start over again. It plays in various styles depending on my mood and repeats for 4 more iterations at 68 bpm. Then it goes up through the diatonic chords of the same scale so I can practice the modes of the major scale each one being 16 bars long. That whole setup repeats 3 times for a total of 480 bars.

The rules are no thinking about what I play, keeping good tone and good time. If I fumble or play a note in mynheadnthat comes out wrong, I rstop and just focus on playing with the change that caused the problem for awhile and then drift back into unconscious playing. If I find my conscious mind becoming involved in the process I stop take my hands off the horn and just listen and relax then once my mind is still I start up again. I have been doing this now for a couple of weeks. Mastering my scales and practicing improvising at the same time. I find it very relaxing and it has had a really noticeable impact on my playing.

Passacaglia

No, Jay, to either - I will have to admit that before 3 or so years ago, it had been 35+ years before I picked up a guitar - and as a kid, it was all CSN and cowboy chords. I got about 6 months in (those few years back), then bailed, until coming back some point this year. Those few years ago, I did begin with theory and scales playing - but have since coming back have pretty much stayed with (1) rhythm playing, trying to closely follow Hono Winterstein's style, among a few others; and, (2) very recently, lead stuff. For lead stuff, it's been something of a desultory grab from here and there, but emphasizing arps and some simple runs. I Outside of considerable practice hours, my knowledge is in other words, very limited. (I never learned the first thing about the CAGED system, for example).

I don't have Biab, but you flag me that I wanted to get it. And what you've set up sounds great. Funny - and we're talking really small steps and short periods of time, weeks, really - but it "used" to be, noodling, and I'd feel good when I simply resolved on something that sounded decent. Lately, it's been the ability to float pretty easily between these few arps on different positions. I'd like to give your workout a try. Thanks.

Lango-Django

What I have done is created a band in a box chord setup

Jay, that sounds really good, and if you'd e-mail that very setup to me at

<!-- e --><a href="mailto:givone.guitar.group@gmail.com">givone.guitar.group@gmail.com</a><!-- e -->

I'll not only use it myself (I am already a BIAB user) but I'll share it with the rest of the group.

Am I correct in guessing that with this setup you can also practise all the stuff we've been talking about that works over rhythm changes?

Thanks!

Will

Jazzaferri

I will add a few BiaB files for 1,6,2,5 rhythm changes and a bebop version of rhythm changes as well

Jazzaferri

I have sent Will 7 Band in a Box files.

The styles may not be compatible as they are all realstyles. Change it to a style you like.

If you want to play or start (depending on file) on a different key, just change the key signature to Major Key if its a Major or Mixolydian titled file and a MINOR key if its a minor or half dim title

Major Practice ...goes through all 12 keys descending through the cycle of fifths

Major Modes ... hangs for a while on the major key with a ii-V split in each 16th bar then goes up through the diatonic seventh chords in a major scale.

Minor is same but minor key

Mixolydian practice is on chorus of a 12 bar blues in changing key descending through the cycle of fifths. This one is a real workout for your fretboard knowledge. Not for beginners. Take it reallllly slow at first

Enjoy. Will should have a post somewhere soon about where to find them

BIAB version 2011 (312) with realstyles

Archtop Eddy

Hi guys. Just want to jump in and say this is a very interesting thread and I'm glad to be a part of this small group of dedicated thinkers and students. Jay brings up Kenny Werner, and for those who haven't heard of him, I'd recommend you treat yourself and read Werner's book "Effortless Mastery: Liberating the Master Musician Within". It truly shows the many benefits of slow and patient learning. Personally, I practice a lot at 100 bpm -- sometimes slower (50-80 bpm). For me, this seems to be the best speed for working on arpeggios. They still sound musical and interesting, yet I can work on relaxation and keeping my head centered to what I'm playing. When I'm ready to just cut loose and jam, I usually speed the play-alongs to around 180 bpm -- seldom faster. When I'm ready to go to another song, I slow it back down to 100 bpm and go back to working with basic arpeggios...

Also, thanks Jay for sharing your BIAB files. I look forward to seeing them and trying out the routines you propose. AE

Jazzaferri

Hi Eddy

I thought you would like to know that the young'uns really enjoyed learning about Djago and Stephane

Thanks again for the loan of the DVD Glad it got home safely

Jay

Jim Kaznosky

spud wrote:

Lango-Django wrote:

he's basically playing over that 1-6-2-5 "rhythm changes" pattern... how come his solo sounds so, let's call it: "spicy"... but when I play over this pattern, regardless of what I do or how many clever Givone forms I try to use, it somehow comes out sounding, let's call it: "vanilla"

Will

as i said in another post, givone doesnt give enough ammunition in attacking sequences with quick changes like rhythm changes. denis chang o the other hand has written in many places some good tips for dealing with rhythm changes. you could probably find it on djangobooks somewhere- i got it from a french forum.

so for the A section of rhythm changes in The key of D
think D throughout
think D A7 (doesnt matter which bars, phrases can over lap different chords)
think D Gm6 (doesnt matter which bars, phrases can over lap different chords)
think Ddim7 (in the style of Tchavolo)
think d7 (blues)

so if you mix up these ideas you can find lots of different flavors.
you'll probably find in your django analyses that he doing some combinations of the above.

Another idea that Gonzalo gave me for the first four bars:
D Em (A7) D Gm6. He pointed me to many phrases which illustrate this in Django and Bireli improvs.