Lookng at Django through Givone-coloured glasses

Lango-Django

First the background. I play much worse when my ego is involved in note selection, or my conscious mind is involved in any way in my playing. I strive to just listen to the music around or if on my own surrender to the music within.

I know exactly what you mean, Jay, and I've read and enjoyed that same Kenny Werner book which you once mentioned. He talked about this level of playing as being a kind of holy religious experience.

Well, I'm an atheist myself but I know exactly what he's getting at... it's like somehow there are two of you, the one who is creating the music totally by instinct, and the one who is listening to the music!

I had a gig with my dixie/swing band on Sunday night where I briefly achieved that state, and the audience immediately noticed it... unfortunately, I heard somebody say "Wow!" Well, that totally pricked my bubble and I went right back down to the lower level --- where I pretty much remained for the rest of the gig.... :oops:

I find it easier to achieve that magical state in my home woodshedding after several kicks at the can, playing the same tune over and over.

I'm hoping your BIAB files will help me with this, too.

The Givone forms are real good for helping you keep your hand in the right place on the fingerboard, and if you ARE playing at a lower level, then okay, you can sort of just regurgitate his version of each form and, yeah, it'll sound fine... but the real art of them is to master them to the point where you can kind of instinctively find whatever note your heart seeks inside those shapes.

Givone doesn't say this in the book, but I'm guessing that the whole "forms" idea is designed to give the benefit of mastering both arps and scales without specifically visualising them that way, or practising them that way--- because who wants their playing to sound like a bunch of arps and scales, anyway?

Will

PS Jay, may I have your permission to share your practice-routine BIAB files with everyone here at djangobooks.com?

I won't do so unless you give me the go-ahead.

Passacaglia

Lango-Django wrote:

I had a gig with my dixie/swing band on Sunday night where I briefly achieved that state, and the audience immediately noticed it... unfortunately, I heard somebody say "Wow!" Well, that totally pricked my bubble and I went right back down to the lower level --- where I pretty much remained for the rest of the gig.... :oops:

Totally understand. Playing comedy; and one memory in particular, comedy in Shakespeare, at that, where so much can depend on literal music of the speech...one role, getting a laugh one night, on a particular line. Very hard to get the laugh back. Because for the life of me, I couldn't ... stop hearing the laugh from previous nights, and I was outside the life of the text.

Lango-Django wrote:

The Givone forms are real good for helping you keep your hand in the right place on the fingerboard, and if you ARE playing at a lower level, then okay, you can sort of just regurgitate his version of each form and, yeah, it'll sound fine... but the real art of them is to master them to the point where you can kind of instinctively find whatever note your heart seeks inside those shapes.

Givone doesn't say this in the book, but I'm guessing that the whole "forms" idea is designed to give the benefit of mastering both arps and scales without specifically visualising them that way, or practising them that way--- because who wants their playing to sound like a bunch of arps and scales, anyway?

This is very intriguing. And I'm giving it a go, just playing the forms, getting them in my fingers, and forgetting anything about the underlying logic. Probably not a bad thing for me, personally. Thanks for the perspective, Will.

Jazzaferri

Absolutely, share them on this site as you wish. I hope they may help some.

:oops: I confess I am a Kenny Werner acolyte Finding the zone has nothing to do with one's spiritual beliefs ...... At first. over time it seems to have an impact though. Music = vibration. Life = vibration

I find it fascinating to reflect on the fact that we would be the size of a grain of sand albeit with the same mass, if our component bits weren't vibrating 8)

Jazzaferri

Next time I order some strings I will get Givoines book .... After a quick glance it can sit on the shelf like all the rest of my Django books.

Like all true fools I have to reinvent the wheel my own way, though I will confess to ripping phrases and I did learn Djangos Blues Clair solo.

Passacaglia

Just a note that I am as of a few moments ago a confirmed Biab dude. Looking forward to mucking about. Thanks, Jay for your generosity of spirit.

Jim Kaznosky

Lango-Django wrote:

The Givone forms are real good for helping you keep your hand in the right place on the fingerboard, and if you ARE playing at a lower level, then okay, you can sort of just regurgitate his version of each form and, yeah, it'll sound fine... but the real art of them is to master them to the point where you can kind of instinctively find whatever note your heart seeks inside those shapes.

Givone doesn't say this in the book, but I'm guessing that the whole "forms" idea is designed to give the benefit of mastering both arps and scales without specifically visualising them that way, or practising them that way--- because who wants their playing to sound like a bunch of arps and scales, anyway?

Will

I think you are right, Will. If you start to mess around with the solos, you'll see pieces of these forms in a more musical context.

Bones

Ok so I finally transcribed the solo that Will started this thread with.

I have not really had time to play it much but I think the pitches are mostly correct but not sure about the exact fingering yet.

Maybe someone can analyze it relative to the Givone forms.

Next thing I'd like to do is come up with some sort of etude based on the chord progression.

anthon_74

Last one to learn the entire Daphne Solo is a ROTTEN EGG !!!!

Thanks for transcribing....

If all goes well, i may just have that ready come DIJ...

Anthony

Lango-Django

Well, I'm off to Django Camp in a few more minutes...

I'm looking forward to meeting several of our GGG members: Archtop Eddy, Anthony, Paul and Jim...

Sorry the whole gang won't be there but who knows, perhaps we'll have some cool things to report back to the rest of the group.

Will