Substitute arps SOS...

Jazzaferri

The head is in D minor which is the relative minor of F, key signature of 1 flat (Bb) so Bb major 7 would be the diatonic IV in major key or VI chord in the natural minor. The chord harmony in the first few bars moves from a triadic minor sound then the minor.major 7 sound to a minor 7 then a minor 6 so the t note of the root positions creates a descending line against the rising line of the melody.

In flatting the Bb chord pne is using the raised 7 of the harmonic minor sound which to my ear fits beautifully with the underlying harmony... Tension release ahhhhhhh.

I am not sure if SR has any formal harmony training...he has a great ear for harmony.....regardless.

Djangos take on it is sublime.

Hemert

Jazzaferri wrote:

I am not sure if SR has any formal harmony training...he has a great ear for harmony.....regardless.

Djangos take on it is sublime.

Stochelo has no formal harmony training, but he pretty much knows everything when it comes to harmony relating to jazz. He just doesn't use the names taught in schools. Sintis have some of their own names in their language but most is just a matter of licks, arpeggios and scales (mostly arpeggios and licks though) related to specific chord forms on the neck of the guitar, a purely visual way of expressing theory.

I discuss harmony quite often with Stochelo and that's the way we do it: two guitars (or passing one guitar back and forth) pressing down chords to show some cool trick and such. He regularly asks me for the official names but he rarely remembers them. I think he asked me the name for the 'octotonic' scale for 20 gigs in a row without any success in recalling the name the next day He can fire those octotonic licks and scales all day and night at you though...

Lango-Django

Thanks, Hemert, for a very instructive posting as I had never before heard of the octotonic scale. I had to google it and found a very interesting and informative answer...

http://musicalperceptions.blogspot.ca/2 ... scale.html

Aint 21st century life amazing? Now all I've got to do is learn to actually use the octotonic scale. :!:

8) 8) 8) 8)

Hemert, it is so cool that you are able to hang out with Stochelo and exchange musical ideas.

It seems that your English is quite good, so I would ask you on behalf of myself and probably lots of other North American players: Please feel free to share those musical conversations with us, I'm sure we can learn a lot from you!

Thanks,

Will

Jazzaferri

If you look up diminished scales they are the ones that are used in jazz

The half whole ....which starts with a semi and then up,a whole , semi whole etc etc to the octave

The whole half which starts with a whole tone and then a half repeating as above

Hemert

Jazzaferri wrote:

If you look up diminished scales they are the ones that are used in jazz

The half whole ....which starts with a semi and then up,a whole , semi whole etc etc to the octave

The whole half which starts with a whole tone and then a half repeating as above

Probably different in the US and Europe (I've seen that before with various theoretical subjects). In Europe there's a difference between the diminished and the octatonic scale. Diminished starts with whole-half and goes with dim chords, octatonic starts with half-whole and goes with dominant chords adding a b9 and a natural 13. Stochelo was asking me about the octatonic dominant.

Lango-Django

So over a C7 chord, the octotonic scale would be:

C, C#, D#, E, F#, G, A, A#, C

(Half, whole, half, whole, half, whole, half, whole)

And if you were to substitute a C# dim chord instead of the C7, the scale would be

C#, D#, E, F#, G, A, A#, C, C#

(Whole, half, whole, half, whole, half, whole, half)

... so it winds up being the same notes either way, n'est-ce pas?

Just two different starting points.

Jazzaferri

Doubled

Jazzaferri

Tripled, something odd going on

Anyway the spellchecked version below

Jazzaferri

Typically, if one was inclined to think of playing within a scale, one would use the whole half in Diminished harmony situations and the half whole in a dominant seven b9 (which is generally thought of as the dominant function in a minor tonality) chord.

The Octatonic family of scales came into fairly common use in the 19th century and saw extensive use by the impressionist composers.

IMO the most important scale to know is the chromatic scale and all its intervallic subsets :twisted:

With that one I dont have to think

Extensive use of Diminished scales in non typical situations can result in some pretty crunchy expressions.

Lango-Django

"Crunchy" ...!