Fapy says most are "just playing notes..."...

kevorkazito

For the last while I have been pondering what Fapy Lafertin said in this youtube clip:



I don't want to be a GJ player that is "just hitting the guitar and not knowing how to do it..."

What is the way to play that leads one to play with feeling and depth that he says is lacking?

Is this merely a perspective of a subtlety in playing that only a master could deduce?

I would find it very difficult to say that a great sounding guitar player is not playing with feeling Especially the likes of a performer that has made it to Samois!

Passacaglia

Incredible timing. We were talking about this very issue in my jam last night. Fapy figured heavily. Other principal actors were Tchavolo and Stochelo, and some other players.

Jazzaferri

AS has been said by a number of giants of the music world.

"You don't find music in the notes, you find music in the spaces between the notes."

Listening to a phrase that one thinks lovely recreated on computer, even with all the magic to try and humanize the timing...to the experienced ear its not the same...at all.

And then there is the whole piece about what is communicated via energy spectra that we are barely or in many cases completely unaware of......

The fact that someone is playing at Samois doesn't mean they are playing with feeling. You will have to ask yourself what it is that you are thinking or feeling that makes you think that they must be.

Lots of people get recognition in the short term for bravura technique. They don't seem to be remembered in the long run though. Salieri was a competent technical musician, but he could not play with the passion that Mozart had. Lots of people enjoyed listening to Salieri but over time his audience dwindled because there was not the inner connection that makes some music so meaningful. Ode to Joy is an example of a piece that has transcended time.....when well played is one of the most moving pieces ever written.... when played with competent technique still good but there is a Huge difference to me....and to others.

Buco

All I know is I wouldn't wanna be one of those young shots performing at the time and hear Fapy saying "just hitting the guitar", I think my morale would go down the drain in an instant.

kevorkazito

Buco wrote:

All I know is I wouldn't wanna be one of those young shots performing at the time and hear Fapy saying "just hitting the guitar", I think my morale would go down the drain in an instant.

That's exactly what I was thinking. Although as a critique, it is so valuable coming from him.

The question is how to make the great gypsy jazz without "hitting the guitar and pffffft!"

It really is about emoting through your instrument. When that guitar becomes an echo of your hopes, dreams, happiness and sadness, then you aren't just hitting it. But what do I know, I'm working on page 23 of Gypsy Rhythm tonight

Buco

Yeah, my personal victory for today is that I finally played a semi decent chorus while practicing and noticed for the first time that I didn't have my right hand touching the top.
I used to always anchor with my pinky, which is OK, Angelo plays that way and to me he's the poster child of gypsy picking but it felt great that I could finally let go.
I felt a little like a child trying to get up after crawling and then holding on to the chair trying to take it's first steps and then finally let go.
When I used my pinky to anchor my hand, it felt great on treble strings but when going to low strings my hand would get curled up and I would loose the attack.
I'll still use the pinky in certain situations but now I feel that with a floating hand there is much bigger range of attack which leads to better dynamics.
That and I'm trying hard not to just be hitting the guitar.

PS is it just me that thinks when Patrus is interviewing these guys sometimes they seem tipsy? I mean yeah they're drinking wine but they're not just "tasting" you know.

kevorkazito

Well, drinking all that wine makes your head feel funny... this clip is hilarious at times:



Yes, Buco, I do agree with you about Angelo. Although I am again crawling as I start a new technique of playing, I did manage to spend some time learning 'Entre Amis' super slowed down. That's been my project for the last couple of months. But as Fapy says, all I am doing is hitting the guitar now. However, figuring out that song is an obsession for me. There are so many versions I found of it. Still my favorite is the 'Live in Paris' DVD.

I ordered Angelo's method book here at Djangobooks and I can't wait for it. Still, I have to be patient because all I want to do is run but I'm still crawling.

Passacaglia

Buco wrote:

PS is it just me that thinks when Patrus is interviewing these guys sometimes they seem tipsy? I mean yeah they're drinking wine but they're not just "tasting" you know.

Lol, priceless. If I were one of the interviewees, given the quality of the stuff Patrus seems to source, I'd say, "no, no - take all the time you need."

Lango-Django

Speaking as one of the very guys who Fapy would probably accuse of "just hitting the guitar", I think I know what he's talking about.

I'm transcribing a couple of solos right now, or trying to anyway! one by Stochelo and one by Rocky Gresset--- and what I find is that almost every little phrase is packed with an imagination and subtlety of phrasing... one might call it "musical gold"---- that is beyond my imagination to create, and barely within my ability to counterfeit. I've never actually tried to transcribe any of Fapy's stuff, but I'm sure I'd find the exact same thing if I were to do so.

It's really not until you try to play these phrases yourself that you realize the imagination and intricate mastery behind them. And, yeah, it's way beyond the ability of most of us mere mortals.

However, they say that genius is 99% perspiration and 1% inspiration.

So I live in hopes that with another 20 or 30 years of effort I'll leave the ranks of the thrashers and join the musical gold-spinners.///

kevorkazito

[quote="Lango-Django"]
I'm transcribing a couple of solos right now, or trying to anyway! one by Stochelo and one by Rocky Gresset--- and what I find is that almost every little phrase is packed with an imagination and subtlety of phrasing... one might call it "musical gold"---- that is beyond my imagination to create, and barely within my ability to counterfeit..
[/quote]

I know what you mean Lango-Django. Listening to mssrs. Rosenberg, and in my case Debarre, in super slow-speed there is an essence in how they play. We can find the notes, now we must find the panache in which they were delivered.

brandoneon

kevorkazito wrote:

What is the way to play that leads one to play with feeling and depth that he says is lacking?

Is this merely a perspective of a subtlety in playing that only a master could deduce?

I've been reading Kenny Werner's Effortless Mastery book. I'm not sure how well-known it is in GJ circles, but it's really changing my perspective on many things besides music. And some of his descriptions of musicians that transcend their art really remind me of descriptions I've read of Django. It's really a great read and may provide some answers to your questions. :-)