Gypsy improvisation

anthon_74

dennis wrote:

that's just semantics, what isn't ear training for you, is for just about everyone else i know!!

Thank you Dennis for pointing that out. I was sitting here, reading Christians Posts where he says ear training is a waste of time, but he spends tone of time transcribing solos....
Um... Transcribing solos by ear is EXACTLY what ear training is in my mind.

As for what path to follow in the journey to greatness ??

Well, how about trying EVERY way, and figuring out which one works for you.

Here's a well rounded path I personally like -

1) Learn the arpeggios over a song until you can play them in your sleep (You should probably also learn the head).
2) Learn about 2 or 3 licks and/or phrases over each chord (get them from Dennis' improv DVD's, Gypsy fire/ gonzalo's how I learned/ Givones manouche method). Practice the licks/phrases obsessively (I call it noodling with a purpose). Play them in different keys, mess with them / create a few variations on each lick, and so on.
3) Practice Wremble's above and below approach over each chord in the song (half step below/whole step above each chord tone except for the 3rd in a major chord and the 5th in a minor chord in which case you go half above AND below)
4) Create 3 or 4 practice Etudes using the licks, phrases, and/or the above/below approach. focus on connecting the lick/phrase/etc from one chord to another so you get used to transitions.
5) Transcribe Django's original Solo over the song in question, pilfer the licks HE USES straight from the source.
6) All along the way, check your progress by practicing improvising over the song in question

BAM - you've done some ear training, you've done some arpeggios, you've done some lick playing, etc etc.

All things lead to making you a great player, and it will only take you about 10 years.......................... per string (I got that joke from Stochello)

Anthony

Passacaglia

I'm taking stock and sometimes such times, I find, I think back on things I've done or not done; what I've left in the way of tracks behind me in the snow.

I do not want to reignite some uncomfortable feelings, if there were. I'm just a guy trying to find his way in the dark, and the progress is rocky and slow. I'm grateful to every teacher I've ever had. There have been so many, in this music alone - here, I bow in gratitude to Denis Chang, Ted Gottsegen, Michael Horowitz and Christiaan, I value the resource you've provided to all of us, enormously so. I'm sorry if I didn't properly acknowledge that, here or anywhere else.

I like what Jay (Jazzaferri) said, somewhere recently - in a word, it's all heart. So with sincerity, I say to all of you, thank you for what you've done, and continue to do.

Paul

Jojo

Guys, I'm new to this site and that's one of the most informative threads I've ever read.

Hemert

Ha and I haven't changed my mind yet

Bob Holo

Goddam I miss Paul's voice on this forum. He's focusing on getting and staying healthy, which is absolutely and without doubt, the best thing for him to do. But he is missed.

Shemi

This thread gives me a sense of hope. I feel a lot like the OP, in the sense that I consider myself a good imitator but a mediocre improvisor at best. I find it easy to learn solos and can memorise music without any effort, but I try to improvise and I feel like I'm struggling most of the time. I can hear the lines in my head but I haven't yet made a strong enough connection with my hands.

I think sometimes that it may have been easier if I had not studied other styles and came at this as a complete beginner. I reached a high level playing music that is not improvisation based and I think I set myself too high a standard. After years of performing and getting it right, the feeling of beginning again and making lots of mistakes is frightening. So much so that when I jam with people there is a good chance I will clam up and panic. Sadly, this means at the moment I'm afraid to simply meet people for a jam unless I know them well, always telling myself I'm not ready.

I've also generally thought I have bad ears. Maybe it stems from an awful experience I had when I was doing a grading at around 13. When it came to the aural part of the exam and I had to sing... Well, lets just say the physical changes I was going through didn't help and I squwaked a lot. When I'm relaxed, my ears seem to work well but when the nerves kick in it's like they just stop functioning properly. I think doing all of those exams probably made me feel pressure that hasn't helped my confidence in the long run.

But I have come to realise my ears are better than I thought. I can transcribe well, I can isolate and sing notes in chords and I am starting to be able to recognise chord structures better when I listen to music. In the past I always just felt my way and had a shaky grasp of theory as I always just played what was in front of me or spent time working stuff out by trial and error. I guess playing the cello helped my ears a lot, as you have to rely on them to get your tuning down

What I lack most is confidence. I'm not going to list my musical achievements, but to say I have performed to a high level as a professional, but even still I have this voice in my head that sometimes says " you're a fraud, they're going to find you out soon!". I know I'm not alone in this, as I've had discussions about this feeling with my close friends who are also professional musicians and some of them feel the same. But then, I do think being hyper critical has got me to the level I am, so it's not all bad!lol

Sorry if I'm rambling, talking about myself too much or not really saying much of worth to the thread topic... I just felt compelled to engage and express the thoughts I had reading this thread. :-)

Hemert

@Shemakimoo

The insecurity you're feeling is completely normal. I had that for years with my violin. And when I beat that feeling and became very confident I tortured myself some more and faced exactly the same insecurity with guitar until that went away also (quite recently actually).

In fact I made the 4th video of my Q&A series especially for people who feel like that. Just pick one song and work on it for a while using the method in my video (it's easy and fun, I promise!). Then on your next jam play only a solo on that one song. Just say you worked on that one at home and you want to see if you can manage in a live situation. You'll probably fail miserably due to nerves. Who the $%^ cares? You gave it your best. Don't think too much about it and go to the next song (while still maintaining your skills on the previous one) and on the next jam play the two songs you know.

If everything goes right you'll fail again (compared to how it went at home), but just a little less than last time. Ha, that's progress. Celebrate with a beer!

On to the third song and rinse, repeat. I'm sure you'll be a confident jammer in no time. And just remember that good improvisers really appreciate somebody who's trying hard to NOT play random bullshit even if they mess up sometimes!

Shemi

@Hermert Thanks, I'll check out your vid, your others have been really helpful. Hats off to you for sharing your videos. I know they take time to put together but you are helping so many people.

I know it will take time and I need to make mistakes to get there but I have found the journey so far very liberating and it's wonderful to feel my musicianship grow in new directions. Onwards and upwards! :-)

Charles Meadows

Great advise as always Christiaan! Your lessons have completely changed my playing and practicing. Just curious about the triplets - I'm practicing at 175 now. You said 180 was maybe a good minimum. Since this seems well in range what might be a good ultimate goal for an amateur? I've seen Stochelo, Angelo, and Joscho hit about 250! But I have no pretentions that I could ever even get closxe to their level. Not that speed is a goal in itself - but I feel much more confident now in what I can do with this improved dexterity.

Hemert

Well if you can do triplets at 175 (3 notes per click) that is quite an accomplishment in itself. If you can do them cleanly at 200 you have developed the precision and efficiency of your RH technique to great heights, but I think 190 is plenty already!

Keep in mind that that excercise does not train sweeps so fast phrases which combine sweeping and full/half reststrokes (and upstrokes) still need the development of those movements to be able to pull of consistently.