Purely a rhythm player

jonpowl

Here is an earlier thread featuring one of my favorite videos highlighting the different styles of 6 of today's more popular players. I'm sure it has been posted here before, but I enjoy it as a tool for learning rhythm technique.

Teddy Dupont

Jazzaferri wrote: »

A great resource for rhythm playing from the man who started it all, is a CD called The All Star Sessions Django Reinhardt with Rex Stewart (Tpt) Barney Bigard (cl) and a bass player who's name I keep forgetting (Billy Taylor) Maybe. ARML moment.

Here's one from that session where Django changes the rhythm patterns throughout with some great running bass lines. I think the rhythm should vary and not be exactly the same in every tune.

bbwood_98

I'll second Dennis' ideas. A big, big +1. Further; as players who want to play rhythm, learn to be at least good at all the styles you can, if you can. Put a record on and play along with it as best you can. Finish that one, and play a second, from a different artist. Learn all you can by ear and try to get the exact voicing the rhythm player is playing as best you can. It's a ton of work, and lots of fun.

Further, I put two more ideas, that I believe in, out there:
One- play with people who are better then you. Play with the best musicians you can . . and learn as much as you can from them.

Two - playing rhythm is about making the lead player sound great. . . If they want it straight, do it. If they need to be spurred on to play better by stabs, interesting voicings; do that. Whatever it takes to make great music.

Cheers,
B.

Jim Kaznosky

That second idea is a really great point.

Jazzaferri

Well my response LOL keep in the back of your mind...jazz is supposed to be a conversation amongst players. If the lead player isn't listening to you, why should you listen to him...:)

If you play it absolutely straight same all the time...you might as well put on real tracks from Band in a Box and have that in the background. Perfect time, perfectly executed rhythm a la Reuben Weir (Mark Atkinson Trio) no mistakes and no extra mouth to feed. Anyway one mans opinion.

@Teddy Dupont ...that's such a great track......wow to have been there and watched that one go down.

kungfumonk007

I think that's more of a jazz thing. I have had two of the greatest guitarists in the genre tell me 1. "Don't listen to what I'm doing while you play rhythm" 2. "You should do your solos as if the rhythm player is not there" I thought that was very odd at first but when myself and the bass player took the advice the playing as a group and individuals improved. Really there is little interaction in GJ, just a touch, while I am sure there are individuals groups that might be the exception, really the rhythm is a very sturdy reliable table in which the soloist can dance upon, not like a dance partner which is true of a jazz rhythm section. I agree that you do what the lead player wants you to do, but I have never encountered a good lead player who wants a lot of interaction from the rhythm. Maybe that is just the players I've worked with. . .

Jazzaferri

Its one thing to have a take on an arrangement for a song and suggest how one would like it done. If a lead player wanted it played one way and one way only, well, if its his band and I am being paid. I'll play it however he wants to the best of my ability.

My goal is to listen to what everyone is playing, not thinking at all about what I am playing. If I think about what I am play, I lose the groove. While Zi haven't played with any of the top GJ players I have had the privilege of playing with some pretty fine professional musicians. We have always managed to play a few bits that said something.

In a jam, if a lead player tells me how to play, I would return the complement. If he's a real pain, I can always pull out the sax and drown him out LOL

Honestly though, If he doesn't like my rhythm playing, that would be a blessing in disguise, as that says to me we really have nothing to share and both our lives would be better playing with people more sympatico.

dennis

kungfumonk007 wrote: »

1. "Don't listen to what I'm doing while you play rhythm" 2. "You should do your solos as if the rhythm player is not there" I thought that was very odd at first but when myself and the bass player took the advice the playing as a group and individuals improved. Really there is little interaction in GJ, just a touch, . .

i gotta completely disagree although i can somewhat see where that statment is coming from.

i m always always listening when i m playing rhythm, both to what i am doing and what the rest of the band is doing, just this past weeked, i was hired to backup kruno, and there was a lot of non invasive interaction... i just gave a bunch of lessons today on just interaction while playing rhythm, it totally opened up the students eyes and they flipped at the notion of,interaction because no one had ever told them about it the way i did (not to toot my own horn)

the keyword is non invasive... u dont want to copy what the lead player is doing, you want to support him. so if he s doing rhythmic tricks, u shouldnt copy him (unless he wants u to) . rather u should play something that makes that rhythmic effect stand out.

if a soloist plays soft, u need to play soft, if he plays loud. then u need to play louder, but soft enough that he stands above u...

if he gets very intense in his soloing, there are a number of sounds u can do to elevate the intensity without getting in the way or sounding obnoxious!

it s true that in certain gj groups there is not a lot of interaction, and i find that unfortunate.

listen to tiger rag, by django with andre ekyan, django is constantly reacting to what the sax player is doing ... he does quite a lot of stuff, but it s a duet so it works out.. some of the stuff he does wouldnt work out as well in a combo situation id the mai. rhythm player did it



i this instance where i m backing up yorgui, i m constantly listening to him.. putting rhythmic accents in between phrases at key moments, playing with dynamics when appropriate.

look at the before last chorus going back into the melody.. the bass player and i accent beat 1 of the last chorus to accentuate the return of the melody, and then we play soft... then at the last section. yorgui starts playing loud with octaves, and the bassist and i react accordingly by playing louder and with more intensity, but not to the point where we are on top of him, we are always just behind him.

Jazzaferri

Great words Dennis. Listen to the group and compliment what needs to be.....dynamics, rhythm...whatever adds to the whole.

Definitely not standing there shouting look at me look at me. But not being a rhythmbot either. How about a sensitive tasteful, addition to the whole?

If you listen well, the song will lead the way. The more people playing, the less room for manoeuvre.

kungfumonk007

Obviously they didn't LITERALLY mean turn off your ears - intensity and such would fall into the realm of appropriate interaction but that still is MILES away from what a jazz rhythm section would do. When I hear jazz rhythm section interaction in a GJ context I find it really obnoxious. The videos you posted Denis I would call LITTLE appropriate interaction so I think we are talking to each other from the opposite side of the issues where I'm making the comparison to a Jazz rhythm section and the awful stuff I've heard from jazz players trying to do Gypsy Jazz.

Ultimately, like Ben pointed out, you gotta do what the lead player wants from you so I gotta be as interactive as the lead and since that will be YOU tonight :0) I'll try to be more interactive, and then when I'm playing with the other guy next month be more straight ahead. I haven't seen the problem with new players that they are not interactive enough, I've always seen that they are TOO interactive, too busy, and it becomes a bit of a sloppy mess.