Purely a rhythm player

AmundLauritzen

Charles Meadows wrote: »

So when we're taking about rhythm playing here do we mean accompaniment for a lead guitar? Would rhythm playing behind say a violin tend to be different - more fills? I really love some of the cool little chord flourishes Angelo and Bireli throw in behind the violin. But then I guess they've got Tchavolo Hassan or Hono Winterstein behind them too...

There is usually one dedicated rhythm guitarist in the group who keeps the groove all the way, very straight and steady. Like Hono with Bireli and Nous'che with Stochelo. Then when say Stochelo play with a violinist, since Nous'che provides the consistent rhythm, Stochelo is free to do rhythmic stabs and tremolo effects, which he does quite a bit.

If you listen to the "Roots" album by The Rosenberg Trio, you hear Stochelo do these decorations behind the clarinet a lot, and in a very tasteful way!

Listen from 1:58, a perfect example:


Django did it behind other soloists too, but he was actually being very dominating, and it sounds at times that he tried to steal the spotlight. Maybe someone would say he overplayed, but I don't think so. He was Django so he gets away with it in my opinion, and his tremolos and rhythmic effects always brought the music to dynamic heights.

Jazzaferri

My duo became a quartet today...first public performance. Unlike playing with my violinist where Because we have played together for a year I know where he is a lot of the time and can get more creative and still honour his playing and keep the groove......I had to go right back to basics.....bass was new and a bit rusty. First A on 4 sephora I felt lost...i hadn't played it straight for a whole year and it took a few bars to remember the basic chords LOL

Very insightful lesson for me.

Matteo

Soundmen always want pickups and all that shit and they like to blast music really loud, but i always tell them just to amplify us just enough so that the audience can hear us. With this set up, there is no danger of feedback…

I actually even managed to play a bar with this set up recently, and people actually shut up to listen to us, it was great!

I would have loved to be in the audience!

Teddy Dupont

When top notch players like Stochelo Rosenberg and Bireli Lagrene perform together, they certainly do not play straight rhythm behind each other. I do not believe it is only when accompanying other instruments that the rhythm guitar can effectively adopt Django's "orchestral" style. Good ornamented rhythm guitar can inspire a soloist whatever the instrument he is playing.

Strict adherence to what is considered an authentic gypsy jazz rhythm technique can sound a bit turgid. :shock:

Al Watsky

Talking about music is like dancing about architecture .

(this is a paraphrase of a quote from Laurie Anderson and was intended as a quip not an inditement of the thread) b-(

Lango-Django

I don't agree, Al, I think it is important for musicians to work towards a common goal, and that sometimes requires discussion of exactly what the goal is.

I don't know if you watched the interview with Chrisopher Evan up thread, but he talks about one of the most important ways that Louis and Django swung was by deliberately playing slightly behind the beat.

Well, if the rhythm section is also trying to play behind the beat instead of playing straight time, some discussion may be required...

Jazzaferri

Teddy Dupont wrote: »

I do not believe it is only when accompanying other instruments that the rhythm guitar can effectively adopt Django's "orchestral" style. Good ornamented rhythm guitar can inspire a soloist whatever the instrument he is playing.

Strict adherence to what is considered an authentic gypsy jazz rhythm technique can sound a bit turgid. :shock:

Amen Teddy

kevingcox

Most decisions we make regarding rhythm are contextual. The OP being self-described as new to the style my tendency would be to recommend he keep it simple and basic. There is a world of exploration to be done before one starts worrying about fills and tremolos. Pointing to what Stochelo and Birelli do when surrounded by other world class players seems a little bit too much too soon for a beginner. These guys already have literally decades of experience with the basics that let them employ these rhythms tastefully and execute them with technical perfection.

I think the discussion of how much a rhythm player *should* do must always consider the abilities of the individual players involved. We can all agree that in general one should add to the musicality of the performance, but how that principle might specifically apply depends greatly on context.

dennis

very well said kevin, and i've said it before, everyone has their idea of what is good. I have not doubt that a lot of the players who put in all sorts of fills and tricks when they play rhythm sincerely think they're being hip and adding to the music.. You might agree with that, fair enough, but for me, and many of the people i've spoken to, it's one of the most annoying things and a guarantee that we would never hire such a person for a gig.

I remember jamming on nuages not too long ago, and when it was my turn to solo, the rhythm player felt it would be good to do loud tremolos while i soloed, i really don't like that… not only was it loud, but in doing so , he also removed the steady pulse of the song (there was no other rhythm player). Oh well…

As Kevin said, first things first, just keep it steady! In fact, I would even recommend using the chords that Django's accompanists used, simple barre chords, none of the fancy django chords that beginners sometimes have trouble with… That way, you only worry about keeping the groove steady

Al Watsky

Lango-Django wrote: »

I don't agree, Al, I think it is important for musicians to work towards a common goal, and that sometimes requires discussion of exactly what the goal is.

You need not agree , thats the beauty of it. :peace: