Difficulty stretching for certain chords

Buco

Wim Glenn wrote: »

try this finger buster [246200]

it's an Em11, after this your chord will seem easy

olivier kikteff was showing us that voicing at django in june ... ouch!

Youch, that's worse than some medieval torture devices.

Bones

Stuart, yeah the Realbook shows Cmaj7-Em7 in that measure. I always just played a C6. Never thought about it or really checked a chart though. I guess the Em7 is leading to the A7. I'll work on that. Thanks.

Jazzaferri

stuart wrote: »

@Bones I play C for the third chord as well but many jazz charts (most in my experience) have it as Em. The notes of Em are E, Bb and G, so very close to C7.

That's the problem with standards, there are always lots of variations! I also don't usually play Fm -- I prefer F#Dim.

. Sometimes F# diminished will be relatively inside as a sub for F min .....sometimes it will be wayyy out in crunchy land.

Em triad is a rootless C7

Frank Wekenmann

Jazzaferri wrote: »

stuart wrote: »

@Bones I play C for the third chord as well but many jazz charts (most in my experience) have it as Em. The notes of Em are E, Bb and G, so very close to C7.

That's the problem with standards, there are always lots of variations! I also don't usually play Fm -- I prefer F#Dim.

. Sometimes F# diminished will be relatively inside as a sub for F min .....sometimes it will be wayyy out in crunchy land.

Em triad is a rootless C7

Stuart, Em is E G B, not E G Bb (that would be E diminished). Thus Em is not a rootless C7, but a rootless Cmaj7. Since Cmaj7 and C6 are interchangable from a functional point of view, Em can in fact replace both. What is best used is a matter of voice-leading and also depending on the melody.

Some varioations of the ending of "All of me" are:
F Fm C A7 Dm...
F Fm Em A7 Dm...
F Fm Em Ebdim Dm...
F F#dim C/G A7 Dm (C/G meaning: C with a G as lowest note)

To the OP: I would advise you to learn one of the first three versions that lies good under the fingers and version 4. The question wether you use Fm or F#dim is more important than how you play the Turnaround C Am Dm G7. In every Realbook, there will be slightly different changes, but in the real world, they are all more or less interchgangable.

Jazzaferri

Yes I stand corrected. Dozy yesterday. Thanks Frank

E, G Bb is a E diminished triad...and a rootless C7

Using the diminished chord as a passing chord is a very different deal from using it as a substitute.

KJT

Really got to thank you guys for being so willing to help and being so generous with your knowledge.
I got a lot of info to take in but it wont be wasted. Think I will give it some time before I try that hand / chord stretch suggested by Wimm Glenn:) Thank you.

T1mothy

in my experience it comes and goes if you keep at it

wim

stuart wrote: »

Just had a go at Wim's chord and got it pretty quickly. Not sure I'd like to jump to it in the middle of a song. The stretching's not too bad but it's tricky avoiding dampening the B string.

uhh, wait, were you playing it with a partial-barre on the 2nd fret? I tried that too but couldn't get it working with a clear 11th, of course the B being the important colour note

olivier plays it with the F# under the middle finger, like that:

Jazzaferri

Some of the really stretchy chords are not possible for those with smaller hands and/or shorter fingers.

Remember to warm up, flex youry fingers and dont force your had. It is quite possible to cause longer term injury repeatedly attempting some of these long extensions.

jonpowl

I love Clement Reboul's opening chord sequence for Indiffernce. Not quite as tough as 246200, but a good warm-up.