It may well be that there was no "thought" or "logic" to it. It may be a phrasing that he was playing around with at some time and just came out, or could well be a pattern as Al described above. What is important is for you to understand is why it speaks so loudly to you.
It has been said many times that art is supposed to tmake you aware of something about yourself...if a work of art really speaks to you,, it's like something inside you is saying that it is important for you to understand what is calling to you. Figure that out, learn from it and move on to the next one.
No one has a corner on the truth in music. Just because I throw out a Miles quote or a Galper quote out doesn't mean I beleive that piece is the "truth". Obviously it has some significance to me. I Put it out for others to think on. To some it may have meaning, to others it may not. Neither is right or wrong. if I get insightful feedback, I am grateful for that. If I get snarky comments I try and learn from that too.
The Magic really starts to happen when you can play it with your eyes closed
@T1mothy,
When I first saw Adrien play in Paris almost 10 years ago I was struck by the same feeling you're having of him playing some "wrong" notes on the changes but making it sound so right!
It's called "Outside Playing"
Later I found out he uses some common jazz harmonic devices to achieve those sounds.
In all three examples he is basically using the Altered scale sound which is the 7th mode of Melodic Minor. To make a long story short, it basically means playing Melodic Minor (or arpeggios derived from it... minor triad, -6, -6/9, -Maj7, etc) up a half step from the root of the dominant chord you want to alter.
In the first example from Djangology you could argue that the Bbdim is working as an A7 so playing Bbm would fit as an altered sound.
This one could be explained in other ways, but it works well if you think of it this way. (Also try playing A7 licks here)
The next example from Coquette goes something like this:
Am over D7 is nothing too strange (think ii-V), basically it outlines the 5th, 7th and 9th of D7 but the interesting part is where he uses notes from Eb M.M. (An Ebm6/9 arp) over D7. Avoiding the 4th of the scale Ab
Look out for those last four notes ending on the 3rd of the I chord. A very common way to resolve altered phrases
The last two licks sounded similar to you... Well you're right! It's essentially the same lick. A favourite of Adrien with different ways to lead into it.
I've simplified it a bit so it goes down easier.
Two bars of G7 resolving to C.
Starts with a chromatic descent from the 3rd to the root and then goes down with Ab M.M. (G7 Altered). Again avoiding the fourth of the scale Db
You can see those four notes that end on the 3rd of the I chord again in the 5th string. He finishes with an enclosure to the Tonic.
Adrien loves to play the Altered scale, in fact it was because of him that I began investigating Melodic Minor... I use it heavily in my own playing nowadays.
It seems to me that the sounds you are attracted to are mostly Altered scale ideas. So I'd suggest studying the melodic minor scale and arps and try working them on some V-I's in all keys all over the fretboard. Just remember to play M.M. up a half step from the root of the Dominant chord and make sure your resolution is clear and brings your phrase to a happy ending (Look for those four notes at the end of the licks and change the 3rd of the I chord if resolving to minor).
Also, listen to Bireli Lagrene he's hugely responsible for so much altered stuff making it's way into Gypsy Jazz.
This thread greatly reinforces what Jay was saying about the Hal Galper videos, specifically regarding what to practice. It's powerful stuff and Harry just illustrated why in his post. Really great thoughts, everyone.
Enrique man, I was going to say the exact same thing but you said it first ! @T1mothy I've had a listen and most of the bits you say you like the flavour of are his altered scale licks. So check the altered scale out! BluesBop Harry is right on the money.
I think there's one bum note in that G7 lick though, the 13th note should probably be Eb not E.
Actually it's pretty much the same lick I mentioned previously on the forums here, just transposed up a semitone. Check that one out
Hey Wim,
I definitely hear E natural and not Eb... Unless my ears are playing serious tricks on me. Also, I don't see his index going down to the 6th fret.
The Altered scale would have Eb but I'm pretty sure it's use in this lick ends at that F note
Listen again... What do you hear? http://www.yourepeat.com/watch/?v=adq-Za_cz30&start_at=3&end_at=6
The lick he actually plays there is a little different than the one I wrote though... It goes like this:
You can see those four notes that end on the 3rd of the I chord again in the 5th string.
Wel it's only true if you're staying inside the altered scale through the lower octave too.
Anyway, the part he plays the lick at is over the V chord (G7) so it sounds better to my ears to hang on the altered there (Eb is correct and E would be a "wrong" note). But at these speeds the notes just whizz past and it doesn't really matter if a few are out - I guess Adrien's already thinking of the C chord, pre-empting the changes before they arrive, which is cool too
You know, sometimes I think we can play pretty much ANY notes that don't even make any sense, if you have the timing and the technique and the phrasing to execute them cleanly and it resolves at a good moment then it will sound good anyway! Especially over the V chord!
You know, sometimes I think we can play pretty much ANY notes that don't even make any sense, if you have the timing and the technique and the phrasing to execute them cleanly and it resolves at a good moment then it will sound good anyway! Especially over the V chord!
I almost totally agree, i think that's the key to play outside, but to sound really great the prhase shoud have meaning by itself and executed properly you can fit wherever you want.
Sorry it took me so long, the last 2 weeks were tough on me. I wanted to express my gratitude to all of you who take your time to explain things that I dont know about. @Jazzaferri@BluesBop Harry @Wim Glenn thanks for being so helpful, now that you tell me what the big deal is all about (just a black cloud in my head. I was thinking oh Id have to spend years in music college to get this stuff) Its much easier to tackle the issue head on. Cheers :-)
Comments
It may well be that there was no "thought" or "logic" to it. It may be a phrasing that he was playing around with at some time and just came out, or could well be a pattern as Al described above. What is important is for you to understand is why it speaks so loudly to you.
It has been said many times that art is supposed to tmake you aware of something about yourself...if a work of art really speaks to you,, it's like something inside you is saying that it is important for you to understand what is calling to you. Figure that out, learn from it and move on to the next one.
No one has a corner on the truth in music. Just because I throw out a Miles quote or a Galper quote out doesn't mean I beleive that piece is the "truth". Obviously it has some significance to me. I Put it out for others to think on. To some it may have meaning, to others it may not. Neither is right or wrong. if I get insightful feedback, I am grateful for that. If I get snarky comments I try and learn from that too.
When I first saw Adrien play in Paris almost 10 years ago I was struck by the same feeling you're having of him playing some "wrong" notes on the changes but making it sound so right!
It's called "Outside Playing"
Later I found out he uses some common jazz harmonic devices to achieve those sounds.
In all three examples he is basically using the Altered scale sound which is the 7th mode of Melodic Minor. To make a long story short, it basically means playing Melodic Minor (or arpeggios derived from it... minor triad, -6, -6/9, -Maj7, etc) up a half step from the root of the dominant chord you want to alter.
In the first example from Djangology you could argue that the Bbdim is working as an A7 so playing Bbm would fit as an altered sound.
This one could be explained in other ways, but it works well if you think of it this way. (Also try playing A7 licks here)
The next example from Coquette goes something like this:
Am over D7 is nothing too strange (think ii-V), basically it outlines the 5th, 7th and 9th of D7 but the interesting part is where he uses notes from Eb M.M. (An Ebm6/9 arp) over D7. Avoiding the 4th of the scale Ab
Look out for those last four notes ending on the 3rd of the I chord. A very common way to resolve altered phrases
The last two licks sounded similar to you... Well you're right! It's essentially the same lick. A favourite of Adrien with different ways to lead into it.
I've simplified it a bit so it goes down easier.
Two bars of G7 resolving to C.
Starts with a chromatic descent from the 3rd to the root and then goes down with Ab M.M. (G7 Altered). Again avoiding the fourth of the scale Db
You can see those four notes that end on the 3rd of the I chord again in the 5th string. He finishes with an enclosure to the Tonic.
Adrien loves to play the Altered scale, in fact it was because of him that I began investigating Melodic Minor... I use it heavily in my own playing nowadays.
It seems to me that the sounds you are attracted to are mostly Altered scale ideas. So I'd suggest studying the melodic minor scale and arps and try working them on some V-I's in all keys all over the fretboard. Just remember to play M.M. up a half step from the root of the Dominant chord and make sure your resolution is clear and brings your phrase to a happy ending (Look for those four notes at the end of the licks and change the 3rd of the I chord if resolving to minor).
Also, listen to Bireli Lagrene he's hugely responsible for so much altered stuff making it's way into Gypsy Jazz.
I hope this helps you!
I think there's one bum note in that G7 lick though, the 13th note should probably be Eb not E.
Actually it's pretty much the same lick I mentioned previously on the forums here, just transposed up a semitone. Check that one out
Hey Wim,
I definitely hear E natural and not Eb... Unless my ears are playing serious tricks on me. Also, I don't see his index going down to the 6th fret.
The Altered scale would have Eb but I'm pretty sure it's use in this lick ends at that F note
Listen again... What do you hear?
http://www.yourepeat.com/watch/?v=adq-Za_cz30&start_at=3&end_at=6
The lick he actually plays there is a little different than the one I wrote though... It goes like this:
Now you C, now you don't ...
Wel it's only true if you're staying inside the altered scale through the lower octave too.
Anyway, the part he plays the lick at is over the V chord (G7) so it sounds better to my ears to hang on the altered there (Eb is correct and E would be a "wrong" note). But at these speeds the notes just whizz past and it doesn't really matter if a few are out - I guess Adrien's already thinking of the C chord, pre-empting the changes before they arrive, which is cool too
You know, sometimes I think we can play pretty much ANY notes that don't even make any sense, if you have the timing and the technique and the phrasing to execute them cleanly and it resolves at a good moment then it will sound good anyway! Especially over the V chord!
I almost totally agree, i think that's the key to play outside, but to sound really great the prhase shoud have meaning by itself and executed properly you can fit wherever you want.