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Right hand technique matter

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  • BonesBones Moderator
    edited August 2018 Posts: 3,320
    You should check out the croquet forums, those guys are brutal!! :-)
    ChrisMartinShemi
  • LeftyKevanLeftyKevan New DuPont mc-10g, Eastman PG1, D’Angelico NY2
    edited August 2018 Posts: 10
    LeftyKevan wrote: »
    -

    "Time's subdivision. this concept is largely determined by your picking handed..."

    This is exactly the common misconception that my thread attempted to stigmatize.



    I would firmly submit that you are the one with the misconception. to say that anyone aspect of being a complete musician is unimportant is foolhardy, arrogant and ignorant.


    I get what you're doing. it's clear to me that you're a well educated player but have, like so many of us guitarists, neglected fundamentals (which isn't completely our fault, we weren't taught them) and are now seeking ways to circumvent those fundamentals..

    Since the claim of the OP was so bold, I punched up some videos of you playing the style, and listening carefully it only reaffirms my notion for cleaning up my picking hand. the guys sitting next to you don't miss any notes, have great tone, good intonation, and clean, even rhythm guitar. you do not. you open of your solo with sloppy time, completely miss a few notes, and bend a few notes out of tune in a way I can only assume was unintentional. here it is below for reference.


    https://www.facebook.com/daryus.scheider/videos/vb.100010108274821/504766546536950/?type=2&video_source=user_video_tab

    Now I'm fully aware that this comment opens me up to criticism about my own playing, however the key difference between me and you is that I would not dare profess myself an expert in something I just started at. I am still a student and will be there rest of my life.

    Rest stroke picking is not about gypsy jazz. all instruments have a pedagogy of right and wrong, with the exception of the guitar. We aren't taught a correct way early on. rest stroke is about getting the most out of the sound of your guitar. I'm already noticing it helping the cleanliness of my archtop playing, with the clarity of time, the quality of the sound I produce.

    I myself am a player who plays upwards of 150 professional gigs a year, in various styles and configurations of straight ahead jazz. i have studied with a wide variety of well known players, some at great length. I am fully aware of how difficult it is to accept that there is a staggering amount of stuff to work on, especially when you realize it's fundamentals that are lacking. but when you are met with the reality of good technique head on and decide to ignore it, that is disingenuous and I can't respect it. you've sat across from some pretty nice players heard the difference and convinced yourself it somehow it all doesn't matter.


    I wish you the very best with this mindset
    jonpowlMichaelHorowitz
  • NylonDaveNylonDave Glasgow✭✭✭ Perez Valbuena Flamenca 1991
    Posts: 462


    If you want to join a club get the outfit they require, the tie, nod at the right times even if you don't understand what is being said, get the right guitar, the right plectrum, the right strings.

    So many people imagine that they are gypsy picking but what I see a lot of is this. Clumsy downstrokes at low tempi, loss of solidity at medium tempi accompanied by regression to clumsy alternate picking, at fast tempo or when trying to show off they resort to out of synch tremolo picking. I don't hear that from Oli Solekelli and I don't hear it from Darius and I don't hear it from Andreas, I only hear that from guys with huge plectrums with one dimensional ideas about technique and no methodology whatsoever for integrating that technique into a working practice routine for developing genuine improvisation.

    They all think that they are gypsy picking all the time. It seems like madness but the reason is obvious, they read about it, they thought they got it, and then they stopped thinking. But they are in the club !! That means they can sneer at anyone who isn't, or imagine that there is a rival club.

    I hear a lot of people use gypsy picking as a crutch and an excuse for not listening. I don't mean actual gypsies of course, anyone who loves music more than being in a club will usually only care about what they are hearing and if it stands or falls on it's own merit.

    If anyone reads this and thinks that I don't think gypsy picking is a good idea then congratulations !!! You've completely missed the point, but that is OK, I don't want to be in your club. If I am playing with loud guitar I will be playing exclusively rest strokes, I know this because I my finger bounce off the string below, if I still can't be heard even when my guitar is at 90percent of it's possible volume then I stop playing because I don't want to be in the club of people who don't listen.

    Not that they would let me in anyway, I don't have the right plectrum.

    D.
    BeroSinto
  • Jazzaferri wrote: »
    .

    Thank you so much for your input Jazzaferi! :)
    I understand the first part of your statement, but I don't have a clue about your demonstration.

    Not sure what you mean by my demonstration
    The Magic really starts to happen when you can play it with your eyes closed
  • ShemiShemi Cardiff✭✭✭
    Posts: 170
    I'm not liking the direction of this thread so I just wanted to leave it by saying we all share a common interest and love for this music, which is sadly not shared by as many as it should be in the wider world. We should be helping each other up, not holding each other down. Wishing everyone a swinging day ☺️
    ScoredogPetrovBonesTDogvanmalmsteenadriangalagatattoo
  • ChrisMartinChrisMartin Shellharbour NSW Australia✭✭ Di Mauro x2, Petrarca, Genovesi, Burns, Kremona Zornitsa & Paul Beuscher resonator.
    Posts: 959
    Shemi wrote: »
    I'm not liking the direction of this thread so I just wanted to leave it by saying we all share a common interest and love for this music, which is sadly not shared by as many as it should be in the wider world. We should be helping each other up, not holding each other down. Wishing everyone a swinging day ☺️
    Well yeah, that is my thought too, but there are always those who have to 'know better'. Arguing over something as intangible as the minutiae of technique on an internet forum (face to face teaching is different) is about as much use as a chocolate ahstray!
    Maybe I am in the wrong place here, but as long as the music speaks to me I don't really care how you played it.
  • It's totally acceptable to have a different opinion. Alternate picking, fine. Rest stroke, fine. Fingerstyle, fine. The minutiae may be helpful to some, but it can be yet another distraction to accomplishing what we all hope to accomplish when taken as dogma. For some, simply being able to play a Django solo note-for-note is the goal. For others, using the style as a spring board for their creativity is the goal. Some people just want to be able to sit in a jam and others want to jump in with the baddest players on the scene. That's individuality.

    Ted's got it right, as well as many many other people in music that I've come across. I've heard it more times than I can count. Play what you hear. It could sort itself out if you figure out how to play what's in your head. That is actually tougher to do (for me) than to get down all of the technical bits of playing (which interests me less and less as I get older). It doesn't hurt to be cognizant of your technique and to get a good sound out of your instrument too. That may also inspire you. All in moderation.



    ShemiBonesNylonDave
  • You are all crazy.

    I like the way you pretend "no I didn't play a wrong note".
    I understand that you can be offensive, but also funny.
    Not sure if that makes a faire balance though.

    Happy Labor Day Jim! Keep up the good work! :)
  • Wow, so many comments. I didn’t get to read all of the responses but I’ll chime in...

    Thank you Ted, you sum up in your own words what my original post is all about, music, and music only.

    Nowadays the beautiful music of Django has been widely translated to performers around the world into a sum of technical exercises, into a work hard ethic, and reduced to a physicalist approach (right hand like this, downstroke here, index at the 7th fret...)

    What I believe we all like about Django is that he sincerely meant every single note he was playing.

    Definitely worth giving a try!! ;-)






  • Jazzaferri wrote: »
    Jazzaferri wrote: »
    .

    Hello Leftyboy, thanks for your interesting thoughts, for time sake I'll pick only 2 here:

    "to say that anyone aspect of being a complete musician is unimportant is foolhardy, arrogant and ignorant."
    _ No idea where you get that from.

    "the key difference between me and you is that I would not dare profess myself an expert"
    _ No idea where you get that from.

    I wish you the best of luck in your musical journey lefty boy! Thanks again for putting yourself out there :)
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