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Right hand picking positions
I have been thinking a lot about this recently. It's interesting to see where players position the pick over the strings. There are subtle differences. Stephane Wremble, for example, seems to play a lot over the sound hole and doesn't appear to attack the strings as hard (to avoid too much snap I imagine). Whereas Duved Dunayevski, like many players, generally plays very close to the bridge. If he was playing a classical guitar, he would be accused of playing ponticello (at the bridge) all the time.
I'm a big fan of both these players but I really like Duved's sound. I've obsessively tracked down the handmade pick he uses etc. I have been a little bit unhappy with the thinner sound of my E and B and was reluctant to swap them for 11's. I notice that if I play very close to the bridge a la Duved the sound really fattens up. Yes, the timbre changes a lot but I think I quite like this too.
Any thoughts?
Comments
If you play close to the bridge, the sound is hard and crisp with a lot of high and middle frequencies, due to little parts of fundamental tone but rich overtones. The more you move towards the neck, the softer and warmer the sound is getting, due to more fundamental tone and less overtones. Most soloists I know are playing close to the bringe, at least not too close to the soundhole because thus the guitar can cut through better (and mostly without the strings clinking on the fretboard).
Hmm ... I hadn't noticed before that Duved picks so near the bridge but, now you mention it, its clear to see in his DCmusic courses.
Just been trying this on one of my guitars that also has a weakish sound on the E and B and it does indeed strengthen the sound.
Either works. When I first started listening to a lot of this music, I loved the percussive sound that was coming from picking near the bridge. Then I started favoring the tone of the modern players. I noticed that those players pick closer to the soundhole. Like Adrien Moignard, Koran Agan, Gonzalo Bergara...
What's really neat about their tone is, like if you put their picking into slow motion, I feel you'd see the hand and the pick touching the string, pushing down on the string in a way an archer is pulling the string before releasing the arrow, the arrow release moment being when the pick finally goes "through" the string. How do they maintain this kind of tone when they play fast is a mistery to me.
Then, like you said, you have guys like Duved whos tone is just wonderful and he picks closer to the bridge. Or Stochelo, besides his otherworldly abilities his tone is to melt your heart. Etc...
Thanks for the input everyone. Duved’s sound reminds me of early jazz cornet. It has this soulful, mellow, slightly hollow quality about it. I knows he’s going for this with his note choices, phrasing and vibrato but his pick placement also has a lot to do with it,I think.
Yes, one way is picking with the round side of a Dunlop (lots of width of string contact), closer to the soundhole (where the string is slacker), "drawing the string" and "shooting the arrow" -- sort of a "rubbery" feeling.
If you play with a more pointy pick, that way might get your pick hung up in the strings.
Seems like the pick, setup, and precise location of picking between the bridge and soundhole, all are interrelated.
@Buco l don’t really know much about this but don’t the guys you mentioned have some kind of secret pick angle technique that makes everything easier (if you can master it) Gonzalo doesn’t appear to but Sebastian Gineaux is doing something a bit different
Seb is doing the inverted picking, sort of ala Benson. He talked a little bit about that at Django in June. What he was really stressing out that for better tone you need some angle between pick and strings. Parallel pick to strings doesn't sound good to him he was saying. So he turns it backwards while most players turn it forward. As @pdg mentioned I also think wider pick tip helps with that tone.
Don't know about anyone else, but I can never get decent tone usung the round side of the Dunlop 1.5mm or 2.0mm picks, unless maybe the pick is worn. Must have something to do with pick angle, but they don't work for me. Can't figure it out!
Tone - gotta chase that dragon.
TL;DR - Good audio engineering is 80% of the tone we hear. All other factors are the last 20% of your tone, with each of those making up ~2-3% per factor (see list). However, if you hone each factor individually, I believe you can get 90-95% of the tone you're looking for.
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First, I think it's important to list out all the potential factors, so you can isolate and improve each one:
It's a lot. I can't tell you what the correct answer is, all I can recommend is trying to isolate each of these factors 1 by 1 until you get something you like.
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I've done my own analysis, and I personally found that similar to statistics - somethings are more important to tone than others. Additionally, certain things are a bit co-dependent on others - so it's hard to isolate. For example:
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I think one of the biggest things most people forget about when comparing their tone to others is your phone will never sound as good as a professional recording. The audio engineering aspects had the largest affect on overall tone (mic placement, DAC, room, EQ, mix with band). When I played closer to the sound hole, but mic'd closer to the neck I sounded more thin and cutting then when I played close to the bridge, but the mic was closer to the sound hole.
However, with that being said - good audio engineering gets me only 80% of the way there. The last 20% are all the other factors I mentioned earlier. Each factor only really adds another ~2-3%. However, if you take the time to hone each aspect individually, I believe you can get the tone you're looking for.
Happy hunting :)
My position used to vary a lot. It was always between sound hole and bridge but sometimes my hand drifted away and I was hitting against the bridge, producing no sound at all. Except of a "plock" 😂
@Buco
What's really neat about their tone is, like if you put their picking into slow motion, I feel you'd see the hand and the pick touching the string [..]
I'm touching the string with my hand as well, or to be more precisely, with my fingers additionally to the pick. When I use a fresh pack of strings and a new pick, this is what my fingers look like
All the black parts have contact with one or more strings. 😅