Fast Chromatic Runs

BrettN · August 2021

Hi everyone. I’m knew to the whole world of GJ but have been going crazy with it for the last 6 months now. I’ve been trying to learn Choti and am having trouble getting the fast chromatic run up to speed. I’ve got it as fast as I can with a metronome but find that I simply cant’t hear the time after a certain speed? Is there something I’m doing wrong here? How did you guys get this lick smooth and how long did it take you? Thanks in advance and thanks for a wonderful forum! Cheers, Brett

vanmalmsteen · August 2021

For me it’s all about analyzing the picking direction on String transfer, let gravity carry the pic down to the next string with the weight of your hand/wrist…. Just thoroughly concentrating on that transition to the next string, and of course doing it extremely slowwww

King_Cardboard · August 2021

Yeah, as many will probably say, starting slow is always going to be the key and focusing more on clean technique before cranking up the speed. I think it’s tempting to go from individual pick strokes into sort of a tremolo technique and that will inevitably lead to a sloppier line. You want to keep the notes as clear and separated as you can until you build up the muscle memory and with enough time you’ll find that you can more comfortably increase the speed on the run. Practice is a marathon not a race. Keep in mind many of the greats have been practicing those runs since a very young age, not to say it will take you forever but it will take time.

BrettN · August 2021

Thanks so much for your replies people. It’s more the circular and descending part at the beginning of the lick that I’m finding difficult rather than the ascending run that completes it. Am i right in thinking there’s no pulloffs and that each new string begins with a downstroke? Thanks again peoples

vanmalmsteen · August 2021

As a general rule, whenever you move onto a new string it’s a down stroke

Buco · August 2021

Which song/part are you trying to learn? Where are you at with the instrument in general?

BrettN · August 2021

Thanks vanmalsteem

Hey Buco- I’m trying to learn Choti as I heard it on the Rosenberg Trios Djangologists album, though I’ve since learnt it’s also (originally?) called Valse Manouche.

I can play all of the parts except the crazy fast part that’s first played at 0.38 in the song, beginning on top of the Dm chord. The lick only goes for 5 seconds but I simply can’t get near the fluidity that Stochelo plays that at!

I’m confident I’ve got all the notes correct - I believe there are no pull offs (ie from the F to the E note and then the C to the B) and no hammer ons-every note is picked, but I just can’t get it past a certain point on the metronome- around 190BPM to 200BPM set on quavers? I can’t hear it as it’s too fast? Is there a better way to do this or do I simply keep going at it? I’ve identified which notes fall on the 1 beat at certain stages of the lick and I aim to be there but I feel like I’ve got a long way to go to get it consistently good!

BrettN · August 2021

Hey Buco- sorry I just reread your post and realised I didn’t answer your second question.

I’m new to GJ to be honest- been going crazy at it for roughly 6 months now but I’ve been playing guitar for 40 years now. I just spent along time getting the Chet Atkins/ Jerry Reed stuff done and I can play the tunes in that style that I love confidently now (took ages though!!!) I can use a plectrum pretty comfortably and feel that I can ‘play guitar’ at a pretty good, clean level. I can phrase the rest of Choti comfortably and can push and bend it both in tempo and dynamics etc. but the speed and clarity of the fast stuff just leaves me for dead!! I know it’s Stochelo though and appreciate that he is a monster player- but I also know you can learn great stuff like this if you put the work in.

thanks for taking the time to respond- any tips would be greatly appreciated.

cheers guys

Buco · August 2021

Ah ok, so you're a guitar playing veteran. Myself included, I think I'm coming up to having played for 40 years, in 2-3 years or so. You never know, sometimes I read a similar question and it turns out 17 year old kid is asking it. And sometimes that same kid surpasses me 2 years down the road. But anyhow...

...the phrase in question is sort of a textbook reststroke picking in this world. And includes some down down picking when ascending to the new string. Which I honestly don't know if there's anyone better at it than Stochelo in the world so keep that in mind. His wrist is so bouncy it truly mind blowing.

Well that down down spring wrist action took years for me and it's still not at the top level. Maybe for somebody who's putting in 10 hours a day will take months, I don't know. But finally in my middle age I learned not to care. I'm really just putting the plow over the neck and pulling along, and things happen whenever they do. I've completely took time stamp out of equation, just putting in as much time as I can.

Aside from these down down motions (and nobody says you have to do it that way, I take it as a personal challenge but if you can pick it alternate with clean tone and strong attack go for it) the rest isn't that bad. Note that once you get to the final high E, once you're on G note, the rest of that line is probably a sliding glissando. I actually just figured this phrase for myself, I can make a video at 50% tempo later today, or tomorrow, if you're interested. I wouldn't worry about the tempo you're hearing, they play at tempos you won't hear in the real world. I think at 75% percent tempo it's reasonably achievable and still plenty fast for the stage performance.

And I think he's playing 16th notes with every note definitely picked.

BrettN · August 2021

Thanks so much Buco- I agree with everything you say-comes a time huh!;)

I would love a video if you can do it- especially where I can see your right hand- but anything would be a help just to make sure I’m doing everything right. If and when you can man :)

I’m just loving this stuff- wished I’d got busy on it 35 years ago!