What is this "pre"turnaround" called?

Malong9

Hi everyone,

This is my first post here after some months of lurking behind the screen.

I am somewhat new to this genre and to jazz in general, and my knowledge of theory is very limited, so please excuse my ignorance.

I have a question regarding a very common progression of chords that I see in many popular tunes. It usually comes right before the final II V I in the last few bars of the progression.

First song that comes to mind, is "Some of These Days";

In the final A sequence, it begins with a C - C#dim - G - E7 , and then goes into the II V I (A7 - D7 - G).

I am ignorant in the theory aspect, so I just refer to it as a "Pre-turnaround" as it commonly comes right before the II V I turnaround.

So my question is twofold. First, what is this sequence called? is there a common name/phrase for it? What are some of the more famous songs that use it?

Second, I have been having a hard time improvising over this sequence. I was wondering what are some common approaches to phrasing over it. Any examples and suggestions will be warmly welcomed.

wim

I have heard it called "Christophe" by french guys ..

Svanis1337

For simplicity's sake you can think C major blues scales or Altered scale over C and C#dim and then G6 arpeggios work over the rest and you can find extra notes that fit. Actually you can play G6 over the whole thing if you want. The dim chord is a colorful chord in this cadence and I like to pay extra attention to it by playing some "gypsy" / classical sounding diminished thing there.

Willie

Same progression as the one that remained unanalyzed in @krzys' II-V-I-songlist-discussion, last 8 bars of Django's Tiger:

Nobody here to tame and demystify the IV#° monster?

AndyW

I've seen "Christophe" - some sax players & other (USA?) theorists call it "The Horse".

for me, there are two related but distinct versions, ususally seen in the last 8 bars of a sequence,

both go from IV chord to set up the final four bars <II , V, I , (turnaround)>

in A major, as above i.e. Django's tiger.

version1:

D D#dim A(/E in bass) F#7 - note the ascending bass "line cliche"

and version 2:

D Dmin C#min7 F#7 - the D minor is sometimes "re-rooted" as a G9.

it's nice to agree which one is being played, it doesn't always happen though. ;-)

lucky

I've heard 'the horse' as well, I imagine because it feels like the tune galloping to the end. I first came across the term Christophe in Romane's book, from the tune Christopher Columbus. To me, the progression is very idiomatic of the 20s and 30s, it appears in tunes like All of Me, I Can't Give you Anything but Love etc. I imagine it comes from Ragtime.

Denis Chang has some good licks for this progression - it's a good one to have an arsenal of licks to use. His courses are on DC-Music School and Soundslice.

In jam situations, my experience is that older players tend to play D Dm rather than D D#dim which can lead to a bit of a discordant clash in the bass line so I always hang back a little and see what everyone else is playing.

MichaelHorowitz

I’ve heard it called “around the horn”

Russell Letson

It's a version of an ancient cadence--a I-VI-II-V--with a IV-IV# dim (or, in 1920s-style tunes IV-iv) in front of it. I've come across bandstand names for some of these sequences (backdoor, Sears Roebuck, Montgomery Ward) but not that particular one. As an accompanist/rhythm player, I don't have to worry about soloing over the changes, though I do have to watch out for the minor-vs-diminished option.

Buco

I call it "you know when it goes to major IV".

You'll hear it in ton of tunes. I'm not good at recalling these things so I just scanned through the iReal and see it in J'attandrai, Seul ce Soir, It had to be You, Lady be Good...then you have songs that start on the IV chord like I'll see you in my dreams, After You've Gove... All of these is maybe not verbatim change you mentioned but you'll need the same knowledge to improvise over these.

geese_com

Christiaan van Hemert has a great video about it here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=au4Iuci6UAc

AndyW

Although I think of it as an complete "eight" (8 bar sequence) at the end of structures of 3x8 or 4x8,

you can also see the horse / Christophe as last 8 bars of a 12-bar major blues.

(more particularly as played by bebop folks, as opposed to a simpler 3-chord electric guitar blues )