Gypsy Jazz Amplification/Pickup System Overview

Passacaglia

Caravan GSE wrote:

I like many of you have run the gamut of different amps an pickups and have never been happy with the tone they produced We also have tried just using mics and traditional monitor rigs with no luck.

After 400+ gigs here is what we do in Caravan Gypsy Swing Ensemble with no problems. We each run AKG C1000S mic into the vocal line of a Trace Elliot TA100 acoustic amp. This functions as a glorified stage monitor. We then take the pre-eq line out of the amp to the PA head. The TA100 is the perfect amp for that because it has a notch filter and a 5 band eq for the vocal line so you have a lot of control. It is an expensive rig but I just do not have feedback problems and PURE acoustic tone. I have been able to play in some pubs with thunderous crowd dins with no trouble.

Our other guitarist also did this for a while with a Fender Acoustisonic amp. It proved problematic due to the fact the fender had only 2 tone knobs for the vocal channel and no notch.

I hope this helps!

Chris

Just to add, aside from their playing - which was out of sight! - this setup was the bomb, when I saw Chris and the rest of Caravan, last Friday. I absolutely loved the sound they were getting.

Hmm....in a quandary. Have a re-issue S51, which I was thinking of joining to a tube Fender re-issue of some sort. At the same time, I only play rhythm, a gorgeous Shopis is being built, and I'd like to set up something that covers rhythm well - not muddy, and not any kind of solo-iteration of Electric Django.

Just a good rig to render pure rhythm tone, and cover up to medium venues, with a lot of ambient noise (e.g., bars).

Craig Bumgarner

.....Just a good rig to render pure rhythm tone, and cover up to medium venues, with a lot of ambient noise (e.g., bars).

To me piezos and mags don't sound so good for rhythm, mics are much better. For rhythm only I have had very good luck with a mic (floor mics, AT clip-on, or the AKG C411 PP contact condenser mic) into an Acoustic Image Corus amp. An AT mic will handle many situations very well and with excellent acoustic sound. For rhythm only, the AT mic will work in louder situations than if you have to play lead as well. The AKG will take over when the AT starts feeding back and still gives a good rhythm sound and about as much volume as you might ever need. I do notice some distortion if you really push the AKG hard, but if you need more than that, you probably need a real PA system anyway. Both the AT and AKG are small, light and affordable, easy to carry both on any gig.

The amp is at least as important as the mic and the AI Corus is just one great acoustic amp. Not the cheapest, but for personal mic use, it is rock solid, light weight, plenty of power, two channels with individual pre-amps w/ full EQ and filters to fight feedback, reverb, phantom power on both, it's like having two amps. Great speakers and a certain rich sock-it-to-me sound quality that I have a hard time describing but I know I like. I've had singers use the second channel and they sound very good through it as well. It has post pre-amp line-out so you can line out to a PA like Chris is talking about if need be.

I swear it seems much harder to find a good amplification setup than it is to find a good guitar, and the above isn't the end of the search I'm sure, but its been working for me, especially for rhythm.

CB

Passacaglia

Wow, Craig, fantastic post, thanks. I've heard great things about the AT, this model and the Pro-70. Haven't yet learned enough about the contact mic option, will keep digging.

You know, I've been thinking. This might be a naive thought, but people describe how lush and warm tube amps are, and tube devotees rarely sing the praises of any solid state amp.

What if you have a guitar you're really pleased with - plenty rich and warm, in and of itself - wouldn't you want an amp setup that amplifies the sound as cleanly and transparently as possible? Adds nothing, because the guitar itself has everything? If that's the case, one of these good acoustic solid state amps would fill the ticket?

(I'm thinking of something like the Fender Princeton reverb, with my Stimer....not really pleased with the sound I get when playing rhythm....but for lead lines, it's fine).

Joli Gadjo

Craig and I play together. And although we've come very different ways to get there we've both ended to identical setups:
We both play Bumgarner guitars, argentines light, AI Corus amps, AT831b, Peche a la mouche.
This was rather unexpected, but has worked in many situations, with other players than us.
Craig works a lot on studying his sound, but I never do that ever: I plug and play. Either way, this has always worked for both of us.
We will certainly try other setups in the future, but I think it will only confirm that this is the one.
I spoke to Kruno Spisic a while ago, and he mentioned that to him the Pro-70 was plenty enough to get the job done.

Passacaglia

Joli Gadjo wrote:

Craig and I play together. And although we've come very different ways to get there we've both ended to identical setups:
We both play Bumgarner guitars, argentines light, AI Corus amps, AT831b, Peche a la mouche.
This was rather unexpected, but has worked in many situations, with other players than us.
Craig works a lot on studying his sound, but I never do that ever: I plug and play. Either way, this has always worked for both of us.
We will certainly try other setups in the future, but I think it will only confirm that this is the one.
I spoke to Kruno Spisic a while ago, and he mentioned that to him the Pro-70 was plenty enough to get the job done.

Thanks, JG. I actually found a great deal on an AT831B ($179), hoping Michael can match it, as I'd prefer to buy from him. The Pro-70 is also on sale, for $139.

For now, I plug into other's amps, but looking down the road on my own, and the AI has come up before. Thanks, both of you.

Joli Gadjo

More recently I've seen some local friends, also Kruno, Vignola and Gonzalo: all using the AER.
Moneywise, if you worry about the jump with the AI Corus, I would consider the AER

Passacaglia

Picked up the 831B, now on the hunt for the amp. Thanks, JG and Craig, once again.

Jazzaferri

I have used the 831 for a few years in small venues through an amp and in a concert hall that holds 500 through either one or the other. No feedback problems so far.

Funny when doing A B comparison the DPA on all the giitars except my Dunn Ultrafox (internal soundbox) the DPA sounded way better but on the Ufox I coulnt find a place where the bass didnt overwhelm the treble side. Maybe have o be out at a foot or so. The DPA is over twice the price but a much flatter and full spectrum response mic.

Passacaglia

Afraid I'll have to suffer through the awfulness that is the 831B, Jay - she's on her way!

martin b

I'd like to comment on a common sense of confusion I see quite a lot here regarding the best way to use magnetic pickups on gypsy guitars, particularly the received wisdom that says " stimer + tube amp".
I think this derives largely from the quite understandable fixation on "what did Django do?" Well, seems to me, what Django did was plug the only available pickup into the only available amp, and got that really cool sound. And you can too! But, unlike Django, that's not all you can do.
Now, in the flat-top world, an old Dearmond sound hole pickup into a cranked tweed will get you pretty deep into Elmore James country. But a Sunrise or Baggs M1 into a PA or acoustic amp is a totally different aesthetic. Similarly, a good, well-balanced Stimer style pickup into the same system is a completely different deal, take some mids out and it's a very usable chord/rhythm sound, unlike the fat overdriven tube sound. In fact, it's my preferred sound.
I'm sure a lot of you guys have worked this out already, and know what you think about it, but I think some haven't, and I haven't seen this distinction discussed much. I also would say that a lot of people (like me) just do not get on with piezos, contacts and clip-ons at all, and should maybe try this approach out, as it's more flexible than is widely perceived.
I might add, in France, whenever you stumble on a gypsy bar or cafe gig, not concerts or sessions but regular gigging guys, it's usually mags into cheap solid state amps. They don't care, and it sounds great!