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Jazz Manouche In the Style of Wawau Adler DVD

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  • CalebFSUCalebFSU Tallahassee, FLModerator Made in USA Dell Arte Hommage
    Posts: 557
    As a Capitali$t you realize you have a choice to purchase a product or not. Like harry said there is no false advertising here. Dennis made the product with the concept of learning by ear and rote in mind. If thats not your thing well then so be it flex those capitalist muscles and abstain from purchasing the product. Maybe try writing down the phrases yourself that in my opinion can re-enforce the phrases and then you have tab. It sounds as though you feel cheated not that you have an actual criticism of the method or DVD.
    Hard work beats talent, when talent doesn't work hard.
  • klaatuklaatu Nova ScotiaProdigy Rodrigo Shopis D'Artagnan, 1950s Jacques Castelluccia
    Posts: 1,665
    Jack,

    Sorry, but I happen to agree wth Enrique, Caleb, et al. Learning by ear is one of the most important skills for a GJ player to develop. On this DVD, you also get the bonus of visuals so you can see both the left and right hands of a master at work, so there is an extra dimension not found on a CD. And it's all solo guitar, with very unobtrusive rhythm by Denis, supporting but never getting in the way.

    I would actually prefer to learn this way. Tabs can be helpful to illustrate techniques and fingerings for key patterns over stretches of 4, 8, 16 bars and so on. But for whole songs, I personally find them to be a bit much. I've got several books of tabs which I rarely open.

    Besides, there is just way too much on this DVD for tabbing. 33 songs at different tempos. You would wind up with a mountain of effort and a book three inches thick or more, or else way less material.
    Benny

    "It's a great feeling to be dealing with material which is better than yourself, that you know you can never live up to."
    -- Orson Welles
  • smilinjacksmilinjack The Wilds of Borneo & The Vineyards of BordeauxNew
    Posts: 80
    I don't exactly feel cheated and I enjoy the DVD.
    Personally, Who cares how You learned the stuff?
    I would rather have a competent teacher and get to where I'm going in a few days rather than a few years. Maybe the whole song transcription would have been too much, but as there is a degree of redundancy in this style, an emphasis on his key phrases transcribed would have been helpful! Besides, they could have charged more for an accompanying book!
    SO I have flexed My flex those capitali$t muscles by virtue of the purchase.
    Both these cats are great players, so that's not the issue here.


    Jack
    "You Can Walk Around this Town Without Brains. . . But You Can't Walk Around Without Money!"
  • BluesBop HarryBluesBop Harry Mexico city, MexicoVirtuoso
    Posts: 1,379
    smilinjack wrote:
    Personally, Who cares how You learned the stuff?
    I would rather have a competent teacher and get to where I'm going in a few days rather than a few years.
    It not how you learn but what you're learning.
    With TAB books, someone else did the work and they are reaping the benefits, you only get their interpretation of the music and often they get it wrong.
    When you do transcriptions yourself (written or memorized) you have to pick out the sounds, not only the notes but also articulation and the little nuances, then figure out how to play it on your guitar and your ears get better and better in the process.

    So it depends where you're going, do you want to learn a few phrases only or would you also like to improve other aspects at the same time?
    Give the man a fish or teach him how to fish?

    Just give Denis' method a chance and keep at it for a month and you'll see what I mean, I think you'll find out you'll be much more satisfied than if you had spent that time with a TAB book.
    Just pick a spot on the video you really like and try figuring it out by yourself, 15 mins a day will go a long way!
    Don't forget you can slow it down with Transcribe and other programs, makes it a lot easier in the beginning.
    Also doing that with Denis' rhythm if you don't know the tunes will get you prepared for learning songs at jams, and that is always handy!

    Going to Samois I learned that often when a gypsy player doesn't know a tune he'll listen and watch for the first chorus, join in rhythm the second time around and have it memorized and be playing a solo and by the third chorus!
    That's also how they learn their licks, no TAB, just eyes and ears that's the gypsy way and why they have such a high level.
  • smilinjacksmilinjack The Wilds of Borneo & The Vineyards of BordeauxNew
    Posts: 80
    "Don't forget you can slow it down with Transcribe and other programs"
    Thanks Harry, BUt I'm not familiar with that program.
    What exactly does it do other than what the name may imply???

    Best Regards,
    Jack
    "You Can Walk Around this Town Without Brains. . . But You Can't Walk Around Without Money!"
  • Posts: 101
    Transcribe is nice but you have free software which does exactly the same thing like :

    Best Practice
    http://sourceforge.net/projects/bestpra ... e/download

    VLC
    http://www.videolan.org/vlc/

    Audiacity
    http://audacity.sourceforge.net/download/

    Basically allows who to slowdown the tempo without changing the pitch so you can transcribe relax 8)

    I agree with harry ! BURN THOSE DAMMED GUITAR TAB !!
    I mean compare to transcribing guitar tabs are useless.
  • dennisdennis Montreal, QuebecModerator
    Posts: 2,131
    hi simlingjack!

    i'm sorry you feel that way. As others have said, I really strongly believe in the value of ear training, memory training and osmosis.

    Musically, I grew up in parallel worlds.. I have a solid background in classical music , counterpoint , harmony, history, etc...

    I also have formal jazz training...

    And I also did the whole ear thing and hanging out with musicians things...

    As a PERFORMER, the one thing that truly helped me was really hanging out with better musicians and constantly getting my ass kicked...

    When I was 16, I had a Berklee teacher try to teach me jazz by having my analyse tunes and finding the appropriate chordscales....

    I learned how to analyse tunes like Donna Lee, all the things you are, etc.... But back then if you asked me to play those tunes, i sounded like total shit....I could talk the talk, but I just couldn't walk the walk

    I was playing all the right notes, but it didn't sound good and I was always getting lost in the form because at times I couldn't hear the changes well... furthermore I was always reading off the chart... I was playing tunes like Autumn Leaves, Donna Lee, Blue Bossa, etc.... but I never really knew the tunes cause I was always reading them

    then I started seeing this old jazz guy , and all he'd make me do was play. no paper, NOTHING.... I remember our first tune, Autumn Leaves... he'd show me the chords visually ont he guitar... and I had to figure them out...

    He then made me comp for him while he soloed, then he 'd comp for me... and he wasn't telling me what scales to use... I just had to play.... it was ridiculously brutal.. and I mean just plain BRUTAL! in the beginning, I stumbled a lot and I sounded like shit

    But after a few months I started getting the hang of it, and I actually started sounding decent...

    This experience really changed how I thought about music and specifically music PERFORMANCE.

    I'm not saying theory or reading is bad... Not at all.. I firmly believe that the student should use whatever is useful...

    That said, most styles of music are based on a very specific culture... it's not something you can learn about being reading about it... you have to experience and feel it...

    This is especially true with the django thing... I started playing this stuff actually 10 yrs ago now... back then there were no djangobooks or youtube... I had to figure everything out for myself..

    in 2001 or 2002 I met Stephane wrembel for the first time, and he put me on the right path by showing me a few things ...

    All the django transcriptions that were available were pretty bad, so I had to figure them all out myself.. My playing greatly improved by doing this...

    Then I started traveling frequently to Europe where I made friends with certain people and I would regularly visit them.

    These weren't lessons per se, I'd just be there, hang out with them, get my ass kicked.. and learn by osmosis

    These experiences completley changed the way I play. Just being there, watching them... basically, if you couldn't keep up, you were dead... so you had to keep trying and trying and trying and eventually, you were able to do it..

    I think this is the exact same process as a child learning to speak for the first time... The child is constantly exposed to the language spoken at home... eventually the child starts speaking the language...




    welll fuck i had written about way more and it all got delted.... i'll continue some other time
  • dennisdennis Montreal, QuebecModerator
    Posts: 2,131
    fuckin hell I had written about 60% more and it all got deleted.. fuckin dell computer... i'll continue some other time
  • PassacagliaPassacaglia Madison, WI✭✭✭✭
    Posts: 1,430
    Denis, I love your accompaniment DVD. That, along with Michael's rhythm book are all I work with on a daily basis, as I intend on staying with rhythm training for the foreseeable future. Coming from a martial arts and orthodox apprenticeship background there, where verbal/linear instruction is muted in favor of "watch with all senses/emulate, incorporate, innovate" (shu-ha-ri), I understand and appreciate your methodology.

    That said, I'm an older player who had some middling training as a kid, and played pretty religiously, but it's been several decades since I picked up a guitar, until beginning training in earnest in this style about a month ago. I've seen the youtube clips, and am deeply intrigued, however, by this DVD. I'm blown away by his playing, and to me, the clarity of your DVD is unsurpassed, from what little I've seen. Would you consider this something for "advanced" players, or would you advocate it for players of all levels?
    -Paul

    pas encore, j'erre toujours.
  • WColsherWColsher PhiladelphiaNew
    Posts: 53
    Pasacaglia - definitely get this DVD. If nothing else it's a big pile of beautifully played GJ tunes to keep your inspiration level high.

    Or... think of it as an invitation to a private jam session with Wawau and Denis (and some others) - one where you can stop the players and get them to repeat (at least until you wear out your remote).

    The lessons do include a nice section on rhythm playing that gets into voicings, "taste", and role rather nicely. And the licks and lead stuff will be there when you're want to tackle 'em.

    Incidentally, has anyone started a cross-reference of the licks section and the songs?
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