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Jazz Manouche In the Style of Wawau Adler DVD

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  • BluesBop HarryBluesBop Harry Mexico city, MexicoVirtuoso
    Posts: 1,379
    smilinjack wrote:
    "Don't forget you can slow it down with Transcribe and other programs"
    Thanks Harry, BUt I'm not familiar with that program.
    What exactly does it do other than what the name may imply???

    Best Regards,
    Jack

    It allows you to slow down audio (and video on the latest version), isolate and loop phrases, notes, chords. without changing the pitch.
    It also lets you to tune a recording to your guitar which is very useful when working with old stuff that's not in A 440.
    It makes it really easy to transcribe, the trick is to up the bar progressively so with time you're transcribing longer lines at faster tempos until you don't need it much anymore...
  • PassacagliaPassacaglia Madison, WI✭✭✭✭
    edited July 2009 Posts: 1,430
    WColsher wrote:
    Pasacaglia - definitely get this DVD. If nothing else it's a big pile of beautifully played GJ tunes to keep your inspiration level high.

    Or... think of it as an invitation to a private jam session with Wawau and Denis (and some others) - one where you can stop the players and get them to repeat (at least until you wear out your remote).

    The lessons do include a nice section on rhythm playing that gets into voicings, "taste", and role rather nicely. And the licks and lead stuff will be there when you're want to tackle 'em.

    Incidentally, has anyone started a cross-reference of the licks section and the songs?

    OK...well, I blame you for contributing to my GGDCB(WYHPTWO)AAAWHTETOTYWS.

    Or, for the uninitiated, "Gypsy Guitar DVD, CD, Book (when you have plenty to work on) acquisition addiction and will have to explain THIS one to your wife syndrome." :lol:

    And to think - if I had followed my purest love when I was a kid, I would have acquired a beat up old box, and found a sinti guru (or followed in the model of Robin Graham, and sailed around the world as a singlehander). As it stands, nearing 50, I have a fever to make up for lost time....
    -Paul

    pas encore, j'erre toujours.
  • BonesBones Moderator
    Posts: 3,141
    Speaking as a novice, as far as instructional material this dvd is definitely beyond my abilities but I still hope to be able to absorb some of the ideas as time goes on particularly if I can slow it down.

    For those of us with PCs it would help if the format was wmv or something that we can use the speed control on the Windows Media Player which works pretty well.

    Having said all that, the playing is great and I will definitely be getting the Stochelo Rosenberg dvd when it comes out.

    Thanks Denis
  • dennisdennis Montreal, QuebecModerator
    Posts: 2,131
    Well honestly, this DVD is intended for anyone interested in the style. Beginners and more seasoned players will use the DVD differently.

    I just wanted to recreate the environment that a lot of the best players bathed in... that is being constantlly surrounded by good musicians...

    A huge chunk of the DVD is indeed just wawau playing through a bunch of tunes at different tempos... the difference between this and a jam session video on youtube , is that:

    1) well it's very carefully filmed so that you clearly see wawau's hands, and you also see the chords that I use... I use very bread and butter style voicings but still authentic to the style... for those working on rhythm, this is a great chance to see what the common voicings are in the style, and especially a lesson on how to play rhythm!!

    2) we play practically every useful standard at different speeds and sometimes different keys.. so you really get to see wawau's personal style... nothing is prepared so he's really giving all he's got.

    At any rate, I can understand smilingjack's point of view... I know there are some people who are jsut hobbyists and just want to have instant gratification... That's perfectly fine and there are already lots of books out there with TABs and simplified versions of tunes.

    I admit that every DVD that I've made so far is for those who are really willing to spend hours practicing... It's kinda stuff I wish I had when I was learning this.. I had to figure everything out for myself... And it took me maybe 5 yrs to achieve what some of my former students achieved in a year...

    So if this is DVD will be useful to anyone, that 's for the potential buyer to decide what he wants out of it...

    But here's the thing, it's called IN THE STYLE OF ... that means it's 100% about wawau's style which is anything but beginner stuff... it's basically being able to spend a lot of time with him in a very controlled environment so you can get the most out of him... either by transcribing his stuff, or simply by osmosis.... you'll see him repeat certain things... and even without transcribing it ... you'll start hearing it in your ears and just naturally reproduce it in your own way
    ----

    Anyway I'm going to continue my previous story...

    I've had the big privilege of being able to spend a bit of time with some of the best players in Europe... It's when I started spending time with these guys that my playing completely changed... I didn't take lessons with them, it was really just hanging out, jamming, or sometimes just watching them...

    And I realized something, is that a lot of these guys sincerely don't know what they're doing...

    Last year at Liberchies and SAmois, I befriended these two belgian gypsy teens.. They were 15 or 16 and had actually just recently started guitar... Their rhythm playing was already incredible... their lead playing was so-so but still quite "authentic" (not that I have anything against unorthodox playing, quite the contrary i love it!)

    but here's the thing, at one point, they asked me to show them a few improv tricks... it was then that I realized they didn't even know the freakin names of their strings!!! they didn't even know that the 5th fret of B was the same as an open E... YET they were playing perfect rhythm to a bunch of tunes, and were playing ok lead!!!!
    "
    One of the kids asked me to show him the chords to "It's alright with me"... I played the rhythm for him once or twice.... and he got it RIGHT AWAY!!!

    so here we have a kid who had just been playing guitar for 2 yrs.. doesn't know the names of his chords let alone strings!!! yet he memorized a cole porter tune just by watching me play it once or twice!!!

    Even with wawau, he had no clue what he was doing.. thankfully he at least knew the basic names of his chords... but he doesn't know anytihng about scales... he doesn't even know what a pentatonic scale is... seriously!!!

    stochelo knows even less! especially about his technique, I had to teach him how he played certain phrases, especially when it came to hammer-ons and pull-offs... he'd look me with a confused look and : "Do I really do that??" and then he'd play it again, and realize that I was right "wow I didn't know I was doing an upstroke and a pull-off here"

    i'm especiallty proud of the stochelo dvds... because you rarely get to see stochelo show his true side as an improvisor... a lot of his playing on CD or live, has worked out stuff or worked out arrangements..

    not so in the DVD.. he didn't even know what songs we were going to play... and i made him play through tunes in so many different tempos/keys etc...

    you really get to see his style, it's as if you were hanging out with him all day while he was practicing... and his playing is really fantastic.. very different from his studio or live recordings!!! this is PURE stochelo.
  • BonesBones Moderator
    Posts: 3,141
    That's really great info Denis! What a great journey that must have been.

    Can't wait for the Stochelo dvd!

    Thanks
  • smilinjacksmilinjack The Wilds of Borneo & The Vineyards of BordeauxNew
    Posts: 80
    You're quite gracious Denis!
    And not withstanding my gripe, I own all of your instructioanal DVDs, and have pulled much good stuff from them.
    Congradulations and continued success!!!

    Best Regards,
    Jack
    "You Can Walk Around this Town Without Brains. . . But You Can't Walk Around Without Money!"
  • wayne nakamurawayne nakamura ✭✭✭✭
    Posts: 169
    I'm glad that Denis added his perspective on the Wawau Adler DVD.

    Denis and I work on these DVDs in very defined roles, although there is some overlap of duties or responsiblities.

    It took me a while and a lot of back and forth discussion with Denis before I understood and saw the validity of his approach to teaching via these DVDs.

    From a marketing perspective, I argued for tabs to accompany the dvds. There is a strong perception among students that Tabs = Value. I myself think this way much of the time. But DC was adamant that there be NO tab. It's not a case of being cheap or lazy. DC feels that Tab gets in the way.

    As I was editing Wawau's, and it's reinforced even more now that I'm editing SR, I began to realize that, in a strange way, TAB becomes a barrier to learning this material. One factor is the "density" of notes. The tab page would be black with numbers so you spend more time reading tab than listening/transcribing/ear training. As DC pointed out about teaching the young players Cole Porter tunes quickly, ear training is essential. It's not just a trait that all the Good players have. You can't become a Good player if you don't develop it.

    Another factor against tab is what DC described as "bathing" or surrounding yourself with good musicians. The tab tends to put a barrier between you and the good players on the dvd.

    I know DC believes in his teaching methods. He knows it works because he learned via this method, videotaping players and then spending lots of time going over the video. You might think that DC has an unfair advantage because of some physical gift ie good ears etc, but I think DC's point would be... NOT! If you're willing to put in the time, with good reference material, anyone can learn this.
  • PassacagliaPassacaglia Madison, WI✭✭✭✭
    Posts: 1,430
    Wayne, I totally appreciate the method - forgive the personal perspective, but in my former world, a traditional martial arts apprenticeship, the concept was isshin den shin - one mind, mind to mind (or "heart to heart") transfer. If we in the west tend to think in terms of building houses, accumulating skills, what I learned there (as well, via a traditional French culinary background), was to rid oneself as much as possible of resistances, ego, etc., and try to emulate one's teacher as much as possible, by literally replicating moves, stance, technique, etc. It's one reason why in my dojo, practice proceeded in silence - I taught in silence, simply using my body, and my student's body, to demonstrate technique; and I expected students not to talk, but use their bodies to feel how and why something was working.

    Anyway, sorry for the segue into personal stuff, just a nod to say I get the method and appreciate Denis's insistence there.

    That said, and sorry if this is a frustratingly discordant question to make, given this understanding; and perhaps this is a question better suited to another thread: but my story is that while I am practicing daily, with Denis's accompaniment DVD, Michael's Rhythm book, I am only now coming to "own" the sense of shapes, so that I can, for instance, see what a player's hands are doing and know that it is a V7, or minor 6, etc. I really don't yet know many tunes, nor have yet owned the various harmonizing models, chord progressions, etc.

    As I do hope to be able to rhythm jam at upcoming fests, any suggestions for getting standards "under the belt" in the absence of direct learning? I guess I'm asking if this a pedagogical thing, in your view, or Denis's view - even while working on perfecting form and technique, to try to learn tunes via tabs, etc., is itself a wrongheaded path? Would you say, or Denis, would you say, if one's path to learning this style is via visual learning, learning as shown on the DVD, then grabbing motifs, then tunes, all without tabs, is really where you're at?

    Sorry if this is convoluted - I guess I'm a bit torn, as a 48 year old newbie (and recent return to playing altogether), between understanding and appreciating the approach above, and recognizing I'm no longer 20. Anyway, any thoughts responsive to the above jangled question would be appreciated.
    -Paul

    pas encore, j'erre toujours.
  • dennisdennis Montreal, QuebecModerator
    Posts: 2,131
    Hi, I just want to really make it clear that I never said my way is the only way...

    In the end, as I pointed out, there are different kinds of students out there, and therefore different learning methods... everyone's goal is different, and the important thing is to find the right method to achieve these goals...

    for enthusiasts, i can understand that my dvds might be too much which is why there are other bookds,videos, out there...

    whatever works works...

    However, for those with very seriousi intentions, I've found that the best way is unfortunately the hardest way...

    the entire learning process is all about making mistakes and learning from them...

    I have a video of Chriss Campion (with whom I recorded a CD on hotclub records) from 2002. He had been playing guitar for about a year or two, and his playing was atrocious, the rhythm was good, but the lead playing was really bad...

    but here's his advantage, he's constantly surrounded by the best players, moreno, angelo, serge krief, etc.. etc...

    i won't post the 2002 video (i have it on VHS) but look at him 4 yrs later in 2006... from a guy who can barely play a solo to this:

    http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... ss+campion
  • PassacagliaPassacaglia Madison, WI✭✭✭✭
    Posts: 1,430
    Hi Denis -

    I hope I'm not belaboring this - but I also hope I wasn't implying that I felt your way was the only way, or even that you felt this, as I know this isn't the case, from what little I can know of you from this site, your playing, your instructional DVD's. My sense is simply that this is how you learned ths style, and, personally, coming from my background, it is something that resonates with my former paths of study as well.

    Can I conclude, then, that it is your belief that if one wants to follow this path you're talking about, that there really is no shortcut, that the way "in" is experiential, reliance on sense training, etc., and not tabs/grilles (at all)? Any specific suggestions if one lives in an area without a teacher?
    -Paul

    pas encore, j'erre toujours.
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