why do all Bossa's sound like elevator music ??

anthon_74

I'm going to out myself here, and I know this may be blasphemous to some, But why do so many top players feel the need to play bossa's ?

I remember last year at DIJ, Sebastian Boyer mentioned how Antoine hates playing Bossa's, and I would have to agree with him there.

Did Django ever even play a bossa ? I can't seem to find one single Bossa played by the master himself, so what's the deal with bossa's in modern gypsy jazzers repertoires ?

All I can figure is that since the most popular mainstream group with the word Gypsy in it is the 'Gypsy Kings', and more than half of their tunes are Bossa's, then as a result, for the sake of popular consumption, we must play these songs that make one feel like they're sitting in a dentists' waiting room.

I don't get it.

Anthony

malakka

The Gypsy Kings play Catalan Rumbas, not Bossas. These are flamenco based Rumbas.

AmundLauritzen

I agree with Stuart. I believe Bossa Dorado was the first song where that rhythm was adapted into the jazz manouche repertoire, and from there it grew and tunes like "For Sephora" became staples of the repertoire.

I'm not crazy about Bossas, but I love to hear Stochelo or Jimmy play "Chega de Saudade". But that is an exceptionally well crafted composition that just cries for the sound of a Selmer or Favino style guitar.

I think Bossas are an example of how the music has developed since Django. That's a good thing, because it creates variety in a setlist. However, everything in moderation. A lot of those new to gypsy jazz tend to obsess over the bossa tunes, probably because those tunes are a gateway from other styles they have listened to.
Kind of like how jazz manouche is easier to get into for those new to jazz than modern jazz, because the harmonic simplicity is closer to what they are used to.

If Bossas can draw more people to this music, then that is good. However, if they just stay in bossa land and never play a swing tune? Meh...

dennis

let's be honest here... all gypsy jazz sounds like elevator music... I was at the grocery store the other day, and Angelo Debarre's music was playing hahaha

The Rosenberg Trio popularized the gypsy bossa indeed with Bossa Dorado; players before had experimented with latin tunes but the Rosenbergs really pushed it with that chugga chugga rhythm

Jazzaferri

Well, if Bossas sound like elevator music to you...I wonder how your music sounds like to Brazilians....probably ewlevator music.

noodlenot

Ok, so I'm not the only one thinking bossa manouche is a waste of time and talent. Took a weight of my chest... I do like to play bossa dorado, though. A man of contradictions...

Archtop Eddy

Me... I'd rather play a bossa tune any day over another round of Sweet Georgia Brown. Now there's music that sounds like vintage b/w cartoon characters with puffy white gloves and boxy shoes. ha ha AE

"No gal made has got a shade on Sweet Georgia Brown!"

Al Watsky

OP
Bossa Nova means "new beat". It was "new" in the late 50's.
Not so new now.
As to why people play Bossa ?
Its simple.
Casual listeners like that rhythm.
Professional musicians tend to be fad driven, you have to give the people what they want.
I was touring with a band I work for a couple of years ago doing package shows for the management company that handled the act.
They would rout our tour and whatever other act they managed that was in that region would be on the bill with us at one festival or another. One day an African group another day a French group and some times there would be a Romanian brass band.
We liked the brass band a lot they played gypsy music and we did too. At least it formed a portion of our set.
Which we by the way set with a Hip Hop beat. Tre moderne .
So we were curious as to why so much of their music was underpinned by a beat that was not "traditional" to their music. That rhythm could be called several things. Different names in different cultures. A Latin American or American might call it a reggaeton beat. It has other names but thats its current designation in these parts these days. We thought that there "might" be some deep tradition there that we were missing.
So this was percolating in our fertile minds and we were wondering how these guys decided to make this beat their universal dance beat for the year, we were curious, as if by prior arrangement every brass band in the world adopted this as their standard "get em' riled up" beat.
Fine, so after a "magic mirror" show in Paris we cornered the leader.
"Why, my friend, do you use this beat ? (looking for some deeper meaning and with furrowed brow), "we know you know others, why this one ?", he replied, " the people like to dance to it".
End of story.
Sometimes its just about making folks happy.

Passacaglia

I think they're really enjoyable to listen to, and to play. That's enough, for me.

anthon_74

dennis wrote:

let's be honest here... all gypsy jazz sounds like elevator music... I was at the grocery store the other day, and Angelo Debarre's music was playing hahaha

Well, Dennis, you are partially correct about this - MODERN recorded Gypsy Jazz sounds like elevator music because of the clear perfect sounding pro tools recordings on Neuiman mics.

The old Django recordings retain that haunting quality because of the grainy recordings. this is why I plan to record using old school microphones to get that grainy sound.

As far as Bossa's go, thank you all for allowing me to vent. I was in a mood this morning when I posted this, and I was looking through the 3 long Bossa's we're expected to learn for DJango in June, none of which I have worked on yet... Thinking about how I plan to refuse to play them when they come up this year... REFUSE I tell you !!

Kidding,

Anthony

Lango-Django

Anthony, THANK YOU!!!! for daring to mention that elephant-shaped lump underneath the carpet.

will