"Aha!" moments studying gypsy jazz

anthon_74

IMHO Trying to figure out how to put pentatonic scales into gypsy jazz is kind of like trying to become a vegetarian by relying on meat substitutes instead of just finding other ways to get your protein.
You can do it, but it may be best to just forget about those pentatonic scales altogether, especially because, with gypsy jazz, you need to stop seeing the guitar as a series of pentatonic, and start seeing it as chord shapes. Also pentatonics may tend to keep you in one fret zone, when you really want to practice moving vertically up and down the fret board as much or more than horizontally.

That said, while I've never heard a note for note pentatonic scale used, I have heard cases where one was used with some extra notes added. Gonzalo taught us a phrase where you play something akin to a descending dorian scale over the major chord, but in the minor pentatonic key like a blues player might do.

I also discovered that, while they aren't pentatonic scales specifically, the 9th arpeggios (minor 7th with a major ninth) feel almost like pentatonic scales in your fingers.

Also, try playing a pentatonic scale, but add the chromatic notes in between the scale tones for a more gypsy flare.

Anthony

Scoredog

Pentatonics are not a modern rock phenomenon, Gershwin , Django and many of the musicians of the day used them and not always with the effect you'd expect to hear from more modern guitar players. Stacking pentatonic into large clusters when orchestrating was very popular in the 30's, majors and minors (the French impressionists of the late 19th century really brought them to the forefront). You can even hear Django using a pentatonic in its appropriate form in the break of "After Your's Gone"...around 1:27 in. Anthony I picked this as I know you are quite familiar with the tune.



Everything is a color and it's how you decide to use it that determines whether it's really great or eh. Pentatonics can be used in a number of creative ways, even going outside if you know how to work it.

anthon_74

You're very correct score dog. I think the point I was (badly) trying to make was that, if you're coming from a rock and roll blues background, trying to make the switch to gypsy jazz, then it may behoove you to forget about your pentatonic scales. The reason being is, in rock and roll, we often use pentatonic scales more as a fixed area to play licks in, and occasionally work our way into another area, all the while mostly staying in the same key. This essentially allows you to solo without thinking much about what chord is being played, especially since the changes are generally very repetitive and predictable.
In gypsy jazz, while you may use a pent scale from time to time, it's specifically attached to a particular chord, only useable at certain times in a song, so you must always be acutely aware of what chord is being played at any given time.
As a result, taking time away from pentatonic scales can be important to change your overall mindset.

This was my experience, although for the record, I was never a great rock and roll lead guitarist before I made the switch.

Anthony

kungfumonk007

Listen to Bireli and you will hear a lot of pentatonic. I remember that from when I was doing all that transcribing, it is part of his sound and style. Not thinking about anything specific, I just remember coming across it alot.

kungfumonk007

But also if you know Bireli he isn't thinking "I'm going to play pentatonic now" he is just playing the notes he wants to play as the guitar for him is just like language for us normal folks.

Jon

Fast forward to 3:55 for pentatonics 101 á Tchavolo

wim

opus20000 wrote: »

A major 6/9 arpeggio is same as a major pentatonic scale every blues rocker and their grandma plays i.e. notes : C D E G A. Duh....

And the relative minor is also grandma's A- pentatonic scale )

Bones wrote:

Does anyone know any examples of the use of major pentatonic scale-based licks in GJ. I'm sure that they are out there.

Djangophonic has a pretty distinctive one on coquette, used to great effect. It's at about 46 seconds in:

Bones

Very interesting. Thanks. I have not really explored much in the way of scalar ideas (just learning the arps is a lot of time) but definitely going to try to fit some of this in.

Crucial Eddy Cotton

My first aha moment was standing on the street in Paris in 1993 and seeing Sami and Roman of 'Minor Swing' playing. The next night they took me to a party where Patrick Saussois was playing. Prior to that, the only Gypsy Jazz I'd heard was the few vinyl recordings I could find of Django. I wept tears of joy to see and hear it done live for the first time.
Next was joining the Yahoo group and meeting a bunch of like minded folks at Samois.

Buco

This aha moment ^^^^ takes the cake for sure.