"Aha!" moments studying gypsy jazz

therealguyfi

Many "aha" moments, mostly relating to the right hand....like that you need to get your shoulder involved. You can rest stroke and still play fairly quietly....and fairly recently I realized the importance of holding the pick fairly loosely. I guess it's part of being relaxed. Before that my lead tone was harsh, not that it's great but it's getting better.

Also, realizing some phrases are easier to play with two fingers.

Jazzaferri

At any moment in time there are (not including octaves) 12 notes on can play following a note. Other than repeating the note one can either play a chord tone, which is more settled a diatonic scale note (extended chord tone) which is less settled to somewhat tension creating, and lastly the non diatonic notes which are more dissonant and tension creating.

The most dissonant to western ears is the minor second and its cousin the minor ninth. C and C# or C#octave up. They leave the listener unsure as to what your intention is. The tritone C to F# in this example which wants to resolve somewhere. They are the two non diatonic notes that drive the psychoacoustic mind to want to go somewhere more settled. You can at that point either tease more or give relief and so on and so on.

Big jumps tend to be less obvious where the ear wants to go next little moves start to drive a phrase one way or another. Tickle and stop, tickle em more then leave em hanging for a bit then make em feel comfy. Once you have your scales and arps to the point of unconcious comptetence this starts to make more sense.....I HOPE.....lol

Some random thoughts from New Zealand.

alton

I am still in my first two years of being somewhat unhealthily obsessed (or so my wife says, lol) with learning this music, so I have had many "Aha!" moments about Gypsy Jazz recently.

However, I will share an "Aha!" LIFE moment that came directly from studying Gypsy Jazz. Forgive me if I've told you this one before, but this really hit me like a ton of bricks, and has really helped me in a lot of situations, both musical and life. Here goes:

At Django In June, I took a rhythm class with @adrian, where he was showing us common chord substitutions over "I Can't Give You Anything But Love" in G. I played the common "easy" G6 (three notes on the E, D, and G strings), and he said,
"Don't play that chord, play this one." And he fretted the full six string G6/9 with his thumb over the neck.
I had never been able to play with my thumb over the neck, even when I was younger and learning Hendrix tunes. I always figured that I just couldn't - maybe my thumb just didn't work that way, maybe my hand isn't big enough, whatever. I have always been able to get around it.
So I tried a big barred version of that chord, and he said,
"In my class, we don't play barre chords. Play the one that I am playing."
To which I replied, "I can't."
"What do you mean, you can't?"
"I don't know, I just can't."
And then he said one of the best things that someone has said to me in a long time:
"Okay. So you've told yourself that you can't do that. What ELSE are you going to tell yourself you can't do?"

That hit me pretty hard. I went home and started making myself play that chord, and after a few months (and some discomfort in the first joint of my thumb!), I could grab that chord with no effort (I am still working on the minor version of that chord - it's a tough one, but I'll get it!). Now any time that I come across something that is very difficult, I force myself to do it, whereas before I would have found a different, easier way to play it and would have somehow rationalized it to make it okay that I was taking the easy way out. It has helped me not just in GJ, but the other music that I dabble in, and I even find myself keeping that mindset when I am presented with a problem or difficult situation in my job. That was exactly what I needed at that point in my life. Thanks Adrian!

And it never would have happened had I not gone down this wonderful rabbit hole of Gypsy Jazz.

Jon

@alton That's a great story!

Lango-Django

there's a funny scene in a novel by the Danish author Leif Panduro, Rend mig i traditionerna. There's a record playing and a school teacher, if I remember right, is clapping on one and three but is taught by a younger person that it's not cool and is instructed how to clap on two and four instead.

Funny thing happened at a workshop at my first Django in June. There was an argument between several European players and some North American players about rhythm.

The North Americans all agreed that "Only squares clap on the one and three."

The Europeans all agreed that "Only squares clap on the two and four."


#-o #-o #-o #-o #-o #-o #-o #-o #-o #-o


...I guess you had to be there....

Buco

Bet you Adrian never saw he would step into Tony Robbins' shoes for a moment.

I think I mentioned this elsewhere but probably not in this thread.
Anyway,
after trying to get that classic Django lick from Dark Eyes, you know that triplet run in the middle of his solo that he's using in other songs too, and not getting it I at one point decided maybe this is something I won't be able to play (what else did you tell yourself you won't be able to play!, Adrian's voice echoes).
But I practiced this run for several months, pretty much daily, diligently working it out very slowly at first and then trying to pick some speed but it just wasn't approaching nowhere near the usual Dark Eyes performance speed.
So I let go.

I didn't touch it for another maybe 3-4 months. Then one day I tried it, no warm up or anything, and pretty much just did it. To my surprise I tried to do it again, and it still worked, at the speed that I could pull off in a jam. From then on I worked on refining the swinging part of it, that bounciness that Django has in it and others who can do it well.

So aha was that after you practice and leave something it continues to bake, so don't be discouraged if after a practice session you didn't conquered that lick or that chord voicing etc.

Lango-Django

Congratulations, Buco! That must feel great.

I've had two personal breakthroughs.

The first was in my right hand technique, after I had retired from my day gig and was able to first attend "Django in June" in 2008.

I followed Michael Horowitz around all week, attending every beginner's workshop and devouring every concept.

And then afterwards I went home and worked my ass off for months trying to learn all the techniques in his wonderful book "Gyspy Picking".

While I still don't claim to have achieved true mastery of the rest stroke, what I have learned has made a HUGE difference in my playing.

And for that I can't thank Michael Horowitz and Andrew Lawrence enough!

Thank you! Thank you! Thank you!

************************

The second breakthrough happened after I decided not to try to copy Django anymore and just play like myself.

This was sort of a necessary decision since most of my gigs are with dixieland and swing bands, in which I double on banjo and guitar.

I found it real frustrating at first--- and I think I vented about it around here a few times--- the lack of a rhythm guitar behind me when soloing.

But I realized that that was always going to be the case! So what was I going to do, just give up and forget about it?

No!

I started practising absolutely unaccompanied, because I figured if i could just keep my lead line going when I was playing unaccompanied, then I wouldn't have too many problems playing with bass (or sometimes when I'm lucky, both bass and drums) accompaniment.

And once again, while I don't claim absolute mastery, what I can do now is miles ahead of what I could do even a year or two ago.

Full disclosure: I'm still not able to keep the rhythm very accurately at tempos over about 200 bpm. So for fast tunes I just play chord-melody style on my banjo or my new Grimshaw four string plectrum guitar.

***************************

It's funny the way your ear works. After you learn enough arpeggios and licks, somehow your ear kicks in and allows your fingers to find all sorts of notes (both chord tones and non-chord tones) which work.

And miraculously, this happens at some sort of subconscious level, sort of like walking or talking.

So now I no longer think of playing melody as something that happens somehow "on top of" the chords... playing melody IS playing the chords!

Anyway, that's my story...

Will

Buco

Lango-Django wrote: »

So now I no longer think of playing melody as something that happens somehow "on top of" the chords... playing melody IS playing the chords!

That's really nicely put.

psychebilly

Was cruising through the forum, and found this thread...I know it's old, but I'll throw in my 'Aha' moment...

Got hooked by the GJ style 5 or 6 years ago, working hard to learn the techniques & tonality, and find it incredibly difficult for someone like me who's been playing Pentatonic Rock for 40+ years.

Watched every YT vid I could watch, found my favorite players, bought lessons, etc...

Then, several months ago, I got my 'Aha' moment...Eric Johnson was out promoting his acoustic CD, and he was playing locally. For those unaware, Eric is quite the guitar player, both technically and sonically. The MAIN REASON, however, that I wanted to attend, was that Gonzalo Bergara was playing with EJ on this particular night. I got 2nd row seats, as I was out to glean as much 'Gonzalo' as I could. The two artists alternated songs and interviews...

As usual, Gonzalo was at his best, and Eric couldn't help but notice. In fact, EJ spent most of the night mystified at Gonzalo's deceptively smooth technique and musicianship...(pics or it didn't happen)...because it was being broadcast on the web and radio, the first three rows were obscured by cameras and crew, so there were tv-monitors there so people could see...that's where my pics came from...

And then it occurred to me: if someone as accomplished as EJ is having his musical-mind blown by Gonzalo, then I should just worry about being myself. All the technique and scales/arps won't help me if I don't have myself in there somewhere.

What makes Django great isn't (just) the techniqiue or the music...it's his personality coming through the music.

AndrewUlle

psychebilly wrote: »

Got hooked by the GJ style 5 or 6 years ago, working hard to learn the techniques & tonality, and find it incredibly difficult for someone like me who's been playing Pentatonic Rock for 40+ years.

It's strange how some really talented players (Bireli, for example) can bring rock/ blues pentatonic scales into their GJ leads and make it sound great and natural, while for others less fortunate, those notes stand out like a sore thumb.

Reading this thread, especially the first few pages of discussion of theory, arpeggios, up/down strokes, etc. gave me such a headache and now I realize why I also stuck with early rock and roll - I never had or heard of such a discussion between my compatriates. Most of us never heard of a diminished chord, never mind which notes to play over such a chord. LOL

Ignorance is bliss, for me at least. GJ has got to be THE most humbling form of guitar for a player.