Gypsy Picking...impossible

opus20000

I guess it's just catching the up pick with the gypsy downward tilted pick and hand position
What I meant say for example I play the 2nd B string, I'd fall through it and bounce right of the 1st E string (resting on it for a split second) Even if I don't come right of the 1st string still that tilted position makes the up pick very awkward.

JSanta

Try this. Very slowly play an easier exercise. I'm talking like 50BPM. Make very exaggerated movements with the pick to dial in your technique. I will do this as a chromatic exercise from low to high the first 4 frets of each string. I even say the stroke out-loud as I practice: down-up-down-up-down (next string), down-up-down-up-down (next string etc).

I can alternate pick quite well, but I learned that trying to play any thing with this technique quickly at first won't work.

Shemi

Maybe try imagining a different picking angle? One of the things I've found is that with the flatpicking I have done in the past, the picking angle is more of a movement across the string, parallel to the body. With this style and wrist angle I feel it more as striking the string towards the body. More a feeling of striking downwards as oppose to across. The upstroke then falls in a natural plane as you come back using the bounce and wrist action to return to a starting position.


Hope what I say makes sense :-)

swingnation

You should also check out videos showing right hand up close of some good players. I would recommend looking at Rosenberg Academy with Stochelo or Gypsy Guitar Academy with Joscho Stephan. Both have close-ups of right hand technique playing standards at full speed and slowed down. The lessons aren't really designed for beginners but you can definitely get a lot out of it at any level. Consider making the trek to Django in June next year as well. You're submersed in playing for days and there are classes dedicated to picking technique. Everyone here at every level is looking to improve their playing so you're not alone. Good luck.

J

Jazzaferri

Stochelo has aid that at speed his pick does not actually come into contact with the lower string if he is using two downstrokes in a row....eg while changing strings or some of the other situations. This was a big revelation for me as that was what I was doing at speed and could forget trying to correct what I thought was a fault.

opus20000

That's good to know. I do have the Stochelo and Jasho videos, one thing I noticed on Stochelos closeup, when he picks up his pick grip is not as firm, meaning the pick bends under the string pressure. I tried that too and is not that effective yet.

Hemert

opus20000 wrote: »

That's good to know. I do have the Stochelo and Jasho videos, one thing I noticed on Stochelos closeup, when he picks up his pick grip is not as firm, meaning the pick bends under the string pressure. I tried that too and is not that effective yet.

Actually Stochelo's pick grip is always VERY light and he also plays very light, almost soft as do Mozes and Paulus. Usually when people are struggling with speed this is the solution:

- light pick grip
- play softly (but clearly, so good timing, clean hit of the string and perfect synchronization with the left hand)
- practice in slow tempos most of the time
- practice in fast tempos 1/4th of the time (yes you have to also pratice playing fast because otherwise you will never be able to do that)

I started playing gypsy jazz guitar only a couple of months before the Rosenberg Academy opened. I had a good understanding of Stochelo's technique and improvisation style but I couldn't actually do it. Now after 3,5 of the academy I can jam with Stochelo and hold my own. So, I know for a fact everybody can learn it, even if you start after 30 (like me). It just takes many hours of practice, dedication and if possible tuition.

Stochelo's downstroke policies are quite extreme, the French are more sane when it comes to that (no double down strokes on one string in fast tempos). I can do both, but it is very helpful to study Stochelo's picking patterns. If you can do those you can do anything (except for starting up on a new string )!

jonpowl

I know it is a long way to travel, but there are a couple of workshops scheduled at DjangoFest NorthWest in Sept. that are geared for right hand technique:
Gypsy Jazz Workshop: Picking With Ease by Quinn Bachhand and Gypsy Picking Workshop - Right Hand Technique by Michael Horowitz. It's not Django in June, but there are great performers and other workshops as well.
How is the upstroke coming along in your rhythm playing?

Shemi

That all makes sense. Not rest stroking at high speed a la Stochelo is economy of movement, whereas the lack of a vice grip on the pic helps reduce muscle tension which again would help him reach that lightening speed of his.

opus20000

Rhythm is no problem for me: le pomp, rhymba, bolero, even the weird gypsy chord triplet (D U D, D U D....) and doing a tremolo across chords comfortably, it's just the -darn- doing it on an individual string that's an issue. . :shake: