Gypsy Picking...impossible

Charles Meadows

Hey Jazzaferi, could you explain what you mean here?

Stochelo has aid that at speed his pick does not actually come into contact with the lower string if he is using two downstrokes in a row....eg while changing strings or some of the other situations. This was a big revelation for me as that was what I was doing at speed and could forget trying to correct what I thought was a fault.

kevingcox

At the risk of sounding elitist, I personally would not base my technical choices off of that video scoredog posted. I would instead seek original source material that they are trying to emulate.

wim

Yup the guy in the video has poor right hand technique and probably came to jazz manouche style later after playing other types of music at a good level (these guys especially find it hard to change the technique, or just don't bother, and the sound suffers). Sorry if guy is on this forum.

You get a nice and close look at good right hand technique in this video :

Scoredog

the question becomes what is a no no?
Results are what's most important, not whether you look good to a bunch of Gypsy guitar players. If you can get the results you want by anchoring your hand so be it, this is proof it can be done. That said I am not making a suggestion here just offering another viewpoint. I used to anchor my hand and now can play both ways, but for Gypsy I float.

Edit
I just want to add that I am in my mid 50's and have had 3 top 10 contemporary jazz hits in Billboard over the last few years, so if if there was anyone who was a candidate to not change their technique it is me....still went ahead and did it and am getting much benefit from it.

Charles Meadows

I often wonder if I WANT to get to where I can play 100% gypsy style. I was running through a couple of Brian Sutton's old lead breaks (Ricky Skaggs' albums) and found myself rest stroke picking and sweeping them with double downs!

At this point my only concern is that striving too hard for the ability to play downpicked descending arps like Angelo Debarre might inject excess tension into my technique.

But thus far the assimilation of gypsy technique has been nothing but positive for my playing.

kevingcox

A no no is anything that sounds different from the way you want to sound.

There are famous high level GJ musicians who have technical ability that I will never realistically achieve but that I --in my own lowly and laughably mortal way-- don't want to sound like. They simply make choices that don't speak to me musically. In fact, there are many fantastic musicians in many genres that I don't want to sound like and that is fine for them, me, and everyone else. I'd still give my left nut for their technical ability :-)

If musicians all sounded the same it would be boring. But don't play like Birelli and claim to sound like Fapy. Use your ears. If you get "close enough" for your ears and are happy then that is great, but don't get mad if people say you are not "there" or don't have "the sound". Own it, that's your sound.

Technique exists to give you the sound you want. If you sound how you want to sound then your technique is fine. If you don't then find a fix.

dennis

Ditto , kevin, for me , technique is about the sound that you want in your head... Sometimes your head is clouded so you can't always make clear judgements though, but that's something else.

The important thing about this Gypsy Picking thing is tone tone tone and tone! The downstroke/reststroke thing is really just a guideline, it is true that players such as stochelo use it way more than other players, he is to me the perfect example of it really. Angelo Debarre seems to use it exclusively as well but the lines that he play are not as technical in nature as stochelo's; stochelo is the grand daddy of downstrokes..

then you have moses rosenberg who is stochelo's younger brother, he is more flexible in his technique, and does a lot of upstrokes where stochelo would usually use downs...

it all depends on what you want

Charles Meadows

It would seem that just a few initial upstrokes snuck in here or there, usually in rapid descending runs, would not impair tone, and would lead to a little less tension.

Jazzaferri

@Wim Glenn ...thanks for posting that soundcheck piece......love it

@Charles Meadows ....Christiaan was saying that in close examination of his downstrokes at speed Stochelo discovered that he actually didn't contact the lower string, stop and come back up, his pick actually went through the plucked string and then circled back up without stopping and changing direction.

crookedpinky

First off, I think that Angelo DeBarre plays with a technique that equals if not exceeds the undoubted technical ability and style of Stochelo. I prefer Angelo in terms of feel and emotional content, but that's a personal preference and no slight on Srochelos talents and gift.

I might have said this before but I think there is often a gap between the way we all think we play and the actual physical actions we go through. Many years ago a local newspaper used to run a "teach yourself to play golf in the style of Arnold Palmer" section. Arnolds explained his technique and it was illustrated by accompanying line drawings. Arnold was then analysed using high speed film cameras and when looked at closely it was discovered that his actual technique bore little resemblance to the way he thought he played and the drawings. I think that happens in gypsy jazz a lot and the last post seems to support that idea. However, as Dennis said, it is about tone and I would suggest, content - both of these, in my view, should take precedence of technical ability for it's own sake and speed.