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Other European guitars

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  • gaddyiiigaddyiii New
    Posts: 2

    Mainly curious about bracing type and top thickness. Also, what kind of strings are typically used?

    I'm yet to get a full idea of the sound of these violas, as the recordings I've found usually have portuguese guitars playing circles around them constantly (not that there's anything wrong with that). I assume they pack a good punch in the lows and low mids, as that seems to be what comes through in fado ensembles.

  • AndyWAndyW Glasgow Scotland UK✭✭✭ Clarinets & Saxes- Selmer, Conn, Buescher, Leblanc et.al. // Guitars: Gerome, Caponnetto, Napoli, Musicalia, Bucolo, Sanchez et. al.
    Posts: 613

    there are quite a few solo lessons on "viola de fado" on youtube , where we can get an idea of their solo sound -though in a few, the teachers may be using nylon top strings....

    I've seen the term "violao de fado" and "viola de fado" used seemingly interchangeably, I'm unclear on the exact differences, if any - violao sometimes seems to imply larger acoustic guitars, or Brasilaian style 7 -string acoustic.

    I've never seen anything about the actual bracing & construction differences, but I have read that they're braced differently to support the higher tension of the full set of steel strings. Some of these fado violas look a little longer-bodied than typical sizes of Spanish classical or flamenco guitar, but all use a fixed bridge in the top.

    I don't doubt there are many more expensive luthier options, but the Viola-de-Fados I most commonly see for sale are from makers like APC and Artimusica. see some pics & prices for e.g. here: https://www.salaomusical.com/pt/1060-violas-de-fado

    I have a guitarra Portugessa from APC , their cheapest Lisboa-style model, for learning on, and it's a nice little instrument: resonant, playable and well constructed.

    I'd imagine that many of our gypsy guitars would serve well to get the sound close to the fado accompaniment sound, needing perhaps a change of strings & a fingernail-picking / palm-muting approach

    (and much more basic chord voicings :-) )

    I too would be interested if @Bill Da Costa Williams spoke to his luthier friend about the bracing and other differences from the Spanish guitars.

    gaddyiii
  • BillDaCostaWilliamsBillDaCostaWilliams Barreiro, Portugal✭✭✭ Altamira M01F, Huttl, 8 mandolins
    Posts: 654

    Update on viola de fado queries:

     Talked with luthier Vitor Paulo this week and these were his comments:

     Although steel string violas de fado are common, accompanists in fado groups may alternatively play a classical nylon string. These would be strung so as to provide higher tension than used by classical players;

    The steel string violas have a stronger construction to allow for higher tension: traditionally with a steel rod in the neck, though many use a carbon fibre rod today;

    The lower priced models may not be a good choice - pro models tend to be in the 3000 to 4000 € range

    Top thickness is similar to that of classical guitars.

    He was working on a 1980s viola de fado (pictured) as we spoke, its currently

    strung with nylon strings, and on having had a look at the bracing he reports that its similar to that of classical guitars.

    Incidentally the term violão is used in Brazil to refer to acoustic guitars

    WilliegaddyiiiAndyW
  • ChrisMartinChrisMartin Shellharbour NSW Australia✭✭ Di Mauro x2, Petrarca, Genovesi, Burns, Kremona Zornitsa & Paul Beuscher resonator.
    Posts: 959

    Thanks for that Bill. I used to travel to Portugal a lot in the '70s to '90s and caught many Fado artists and the line up always seemed to be singer, Portuguese guitar and what I always thought to be a standard nylon strung Spanish or classical guitar. The latter usually had a nice strong tone though, is that coming from what you mean by 'higher tension'?

    As in just a set of high tension strings or do they use heavier than normal strings or tune differently?

    Whatever, I certainly never remember any steel string guitars being used.

    AndyW
  • WillieWillie HamburgNew
    edited May 2022 Posts: 864

    At the fleamarket for musical instruments today. Sold my little Framus, bought a ukulele for my nursery school groups, and saw several charming guitars:

    My market stall: Stevens custom built electric slide bouzouki, 1963 Framus Capri or Stella, 1960 Framus Studio, Baton Rouge baritone uke, signal horn, 1963 Besson Stratford trumpet (fine instrument!), and a walking stick trumpet.

    Framus.

    Wolfgang Hüttl (Pique Dame?).

    Neumann.

    Couldn't get more precise information about the guitars.

    AndyWBuco
  • WillieWillie HamburgNew
    Posts: 864

    The Hüttl in fact is a Pique Dame model, which was produced in the 50ies and 60ies.

    Most pictures of Pique Dames that I found in the internet show them with this type of tailpiece:

    But there is a catalogue picture that shows that the tailpiece of the fleamarket Hüttl should be original:

    http://www.schlaggitarren.de/home.php?text=hersteller&kenn=68

    BillDaCostaWilliamsAndyWBuco
  • BillDaCostaWilliamsBillDaCostaWilliams Barreiro, Portugal✭✭✭ Altamira M01F, Huttl, 8 mandolins
    Posts: 654

    Gosh - rich pickings.

    I recall that the Pique Dame was one of the fanciest of the Huttl range.

    Willie, do you recall how much they were asking for this one? I like the Black Rose finish.

  • ChrisMartinChrisMartin Shellharbour NSW Australia✭✭ Di Mauro x2, Petrarca, Genovesi, Burns, Kremona Zornitsa & Paul Beuscher resonator.
    Posts: 959

    Another vote for the Huttl here. I have never caught one yet, obviously rare in Australia, I will have to buy from Europe, but yes, a lot of the fancier German archtops look best in the Black Rose finish. As for the tailpiece, I wouldn't worry, as with other brands they often changed, I think both of these types were made by a separate supplier, they are often seen on Hofner, Hoyer etc and maybe they simply used whatever was in stock? I had one similar on a Hoyer I sold recently.


    WillieBillDaCostaWilliams
  • WillieWillie HamburgNew
    edited June 2022 Posts: 864

    Another flea market, this time the guitars I took photos of are of no collector's interest -but colorful:

    Looks like someone prepared several cheapos for selling them at markets.

    BillDaCostaWilliams
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