Reverse La Pompe

Rip · August 2023

I don't know if others have done this, because I don't really listen to much music these days, but something i've been getting into "reverse la pompe." Normally the quick upstroke happens on the "and" of 2 and "and" of 4, but I've been moving the upstroke after the down stroke to the "and" of 1 the "and" of 3. Cool effect. Do people/django do this all the time and I was just unaware?

Buco · August 2023

I only do (if I do, many times I intentionally avoid it) just before 1 and 3. I tried the other way and it sounds super awkward.

wim · August 2023

Could you notate what you mean exactly - the "and" of 1 and 3 would seem a bit strange already? If trying to imitate a ride cymbal in jazz, the position is like the "a" of the 2's + 4's:

1 & a 2 & a 3 & a 4 & a
          ^           ^
          |           |

Where "1 & a" is like a triplet group of the beat. Not sure if there's a standard way to name those triplet subdivisions (I've seen "1 te ta 2 te ta" and also "ta ki da" from takadimi solfège)

Personally, in GJ I "feel" the upstroke more coincident with the 1 and 3, and I don't really think of it as the "&" of anything, it's more like a grace note or something else that I don't even know how to notate. Like an artifact of resetting the right hand for the 1 and 3 strokes, that you can intentionally include or leave out just by adjusting the right hand motion a little bit, and it doesn't seem to shift much when the tempo slows down. It's barely there.

One thing that Django seemed to do a lot in the hot club, usually towards the end of a song, is start to accent upstrokes more heavily and add them on the "a" of 1 + 3 as well (so not instead of the 2's + 4's, but in addition to- on the "a" of every 1 2 3 4 beat) and then it makes a sort of shuffle feel. He does that a lot when he's maybe trying to build the song in intensity (or perhaps it's a message to Stephane to wrap up his solo and head out... :)

Rip · August 2023

https://www.djangobooks.com/forum/discussion/comment/115038#Comment_115038

It is awkward, but I kind of like it. Just experimenting.

Rip · August 2023

https://www.djangobooks.com/forum/discussion/comment/115040#Comment_115040

1 and a 2 and (a - accent) 3 and a 4 and (a -accent) is normal, just as you wrote out.

I do that at slower tempos, but not always. And I know how Django would sometimes do it on everyone, like you mentioned to create energy.

What I meant was 1 and (a - accent) 2 and a 3 and (a- accent) 4 and a. It sort of gives it a bolero/marching feel. I guess if anything, it's just a poly rhythm that can be thrown in.

Buco · August 2023

It's exactly how you described it, Wim.

it's always prior to 1 and 3, I never heard it with 2 and 4 except that Django shuffle that Wim described.

I hear that effect as an accidental brush of a very relaxed hand as it moves up to the top of the strings to play 1 and 3. It's a side effect even though it's mostly used as an intentional ornament nowadays. When done well it helps to propel the sense of drive but if not it does the opposite, it can bog down the drive.

Rip · August 2023

https://www.djangobooks.com/forum/discussion/comment/115038#Comment_115038

https://www.djangobooks.com/forum/discussion/comment/115044#Comment_115044

I agree, but I recently, but the fapy lesson from dc music and when he does the upstroke he actually plays the strings on the upstroke. Sounds like django.

bbwood_98 · August 2023

Many years ago - I had the great opportunity to study with some rather good rhythm players in the style . . . Control was their biggest piece of advice. From no upstroke, to each beat to 1 and 3, 2 and 4, just the 4 and then 1 . . It depends on the effect and what the soloist does. We have the responsibility to play correct time, and correct chords. We also have a responsibility to respond/interact to/with the soloist (see any talented jazz drummer; frankly better, go transcribe some great drummers, Blakey, Roach, Blade are all amazing and very interactive players - see what you can steal and put into your rhythm). having the ability to move the upstroke is one way to do this.

Go Ahead @Rip!! As long as you can make is sound great I'm all for it!

littlemark · August 2023

Hmmm this sounds like a bad idea. But like bb said. If it sounds good do it. But don't fuck up the time for the soloist.

Can you record something for us?

Buco · August 2023

@Rip In my initial comment I wrote it the wrong way (I changed my comment). Normally it's just a blink prior to 1 and 3. I played again the upstroke prior to 2 and 4. I think the way it could work is you make both groups of beats, 1/3 and 2/4 more or less equal quality. So it's more of a even 4s rhythm. Then you can throw in the accent just before the 2 and 4. It can be interesting, in a working band where everyone knows what's happening.