Modern la pompe vs Django's rhythm

Japanese Sandman

Glad I found these posts as I was wondering whether I was crazy (I probably am though). I have come to the same conclusion that modern players do not swing as much - in fact, at times, it can be a very machine like sound coming from the rhythm section. Also, when one goes through Django's recordings you find so many varieties of rhythm - there is no standard pompe…. I too find Fapy's Le Jazz recordings are the most accurate approximation of Django's late 30s sound (the one I like most).

MichaelHorowitz

@wim the .be links didn't work with the old system either. Just use the regular link:

Russell Letson

The early Hot Club cuts are absolutely rooted in dance music, and the dance music of the mid-30s has a different pulse from that of a decade earlier. Listen to an early recording of, say, "I Can't Believe that You're in Love with Me" (1926--there's a 1927 Roger Wolfe Kahn recording on YouTube) and then to, say, the 1938 Teddy Wilson/Billie Holiday recording (it's also on YT), it's an entirely different rhythmic world, and the differences have everything to do with dance. I call the '26 version a fast foxtrot with a pretty square beat, while the '38 version not only slows the tempo but swings it. That's the musical environment in which Django and Grappelli operated in the pre-war years and that formed the rhythm section sound. The comments on the connection to the drum kit are right on the money--that's the sound that's always been at the back of my mind when playing rhythm guitar of any period or style, and why I listen to drummers (and bass players) almost as much as I do to guitarists. Of course, I'll always play with an American accent, but I think I come by it honestly.

adrian

wim wrote: »

That one of Adrien on django's solo in dinette was a new version for me, anyone know what album that's from? Is it really Adrien?

Yes, it is indeed Adrien! It's from a compilation called "Generation Django." http://shoppingcart.djangobooks.com/Item/bireli-lagrene-generation-django

AmundLauritzen

To me, the best rhythm is one that is steady and consistent and emphasizing the 2 and 4. I'm not a fan of the style where the 2 and 4 are choked. This shifts the emphasis to the 1 and 3 and it sounds like a march. My favorite rhythm player is Nous'che Rosenberg, but there are many good Dutch players. Johnny Rosenberg is incredible. Remember he played in the group "Sinti" with Jimmy Rosenberg and had to keep steady rhythm for Jimmys crazy tempos. I think the following clip where he's playing rhythm for Mozes illustrates my point about steadiness, consistency and emphasizing the 2 and 4:

guit-box

It would be hard to argue against steadiness and consistency, but it does seem that it's become the primary focus in today's hot club jazz--along with tempos that are too fast to swing. Django's rhythm section is so much more fun to listen to than all the modern examples I've listened to so far in this thread. It would be nice to hear some modern players get back to the medium swinging tempos and more melodic soloing.

Jazzaferri

I find much of the modern rhythm playing to be less lyrical

It almost seems like rhythm players aren't supposed to do anything jazzy or outside the box these days.

I love the music that Django made......whether taking a solo or playing behind he was first and foremost a jazz player...always adding something to the music.

A lot of what I hear today could be replaced by Band in a Box. Its not supposed to be about everyone doing nothing that might interfere with the soloist....its supposed to be a group conversation IMO

galvanometr

I personally adore the old la pompe, in both slow and fast tempo. It has such a soul and excitement on it's own that I could listen to just rhythm guitar and be happy for a very long time.

Modern stuff is opposite, not entirely everything, but majority.
I'm hard to please in this regard and don't seem to have same ear as most of the audience/players, so glad there's quite a lot of old recordings.

Teddy Dupont

Jazzaferri wrote: »

I love the music that Django made......whether taking a solo or playing behind he was first and foremost a jazz player...always adding something to the music.

Absolutely!! ....... And his music had a warmth and "roundness" that is lacking in so much modern gypsy jazz. Although I accept it's technically perfect, much of the current rhythm playing is just too clinical for me and drives at the expense of swing.

pickitjohn

I'm with the SWING BAND.

What makes this Music alive for me is the Rhythm Style Django played. He knew when and how to embellish the tune's drive.

Play it like you feel it and feel it Swing.
:whistle:


Wether your gonna be the first horse in the Rhythm barn is another question.

pick on

pickitjohn