Modern la pompe vs Django's rhythm

Bones

A few things to consider about Django's flourishes are 1) he was a phenomenal rhythm player with tons of 'drive', 2) his flourishes were really unique and 'tasty' and he had a lot of different tricks up his sleeve to keep it interesting and 3) he was putting in really dynamic flourishes but it was behind a violin player. If he had been comping for a guitar player he probably would have done a fair bit less of that (my guess anyway). Also, I'd think that one would need really good ears and ability to anticipate the soloist to be that aggressive with the accents. I think if one is strictly in the rhythm chair and there are multiple lead players it's best to leave that kind of thing up to the soloists to work out between themselves.

As far as the basic pompe, I have to say while I love the old QHCF stuff I prefer the more modern stuff for a number of reasons. Also, I think that an audience will expect a more modern sound (unless you are going for a real 'retro' thing) but that's just my take. Like Jon said, yes the old stuff is more like a loping gallop and I think it is that really long upstroke on the 1/3 that gives it that feel plus the 2/4 is way less 'modern'.

Jazzaferri

I think you make a very pertinent point Mr Bones .... The more people playing the less room there is to manoeuvre...to the point that in large groups unless things are written down and people are playing their part in time and the right notes ...ends up sounding muddy and cacaphonous.

Bones

Jazza, yes cacophonous is the description that I was groping for. It can happen really easily if one isn't careful (don't ask me how I know). These days, being in the rhythm chair, I rarely get busy at all and if I start hearing it getting cacophonous from the lead guys, I really try to lay it down even more straight and dry than usual.

Jazzaferri

Sounds like you go to jams some

guit-box

I think an important point is that the QHCF rhythm, (even thought it had some variation itself depending on who exactly was on rhythm guitar with Django) is quite a bit different than modern gypsy jazz rhythms. I hear hardly any modern hot club band playing a rhythm like those I posted of Django's Tiger or Coquette played by QHCF. I should have been more clear when I posted this topic that I was referring to the pompe rhythm and not the flourishes and fills that Django does. On those two recordings (and a lot of QHCF recordings for that matter) the 1 and 3 are quieter and the 2 and 4 are louder, but most importantly the upstrokes are more pronounced and there is a clear sounding of the open notes on the upstroke. Of course this is done with much skill and those open notes are choked very quickly. I hear both Django doing this when he's pomping as well as the other rhythm players. I'm not talking about a gallop, that's something different, it's the basic rhythm that has more up stroke. The tempos are also a lot slower than most bands play Django's tunes these days, and that up stroke really lends itself to a more swingin' rhythm. I find this rhythm to be so much more fun and and swinging than modern gypsy jazz. Of course there are a lot of very technically skillful players today, but there aren't many songs by modern GJ bands that I want to play over and over like Django. I hate to say it, but I think this current trend/style is doing a disservice to this wonderful music by giving it such a heavy, hard driving sound that lacks the happy, fun, bouncing swing that Django's band had.

Jazzaferri

There are la number of recordings where Django is the only guitar and his genius shows through in this as well. Listen to his rhythm playing in the quartet with rex stewart barney bigard and billy taylor. Thats my ideal for gj rhythm playing.

I rather suspect that Joseph learned lots from him as did Baro and others.

Bones

Django was a masterful rhythm player for sure in a band setting and as an accompanist in duet with Stephane. One could make a study just of his comping IMHO.

Jazzaferri

That is what I am doing as that is my ideal of guitar comping.

Bones

Jazza, have you checked out his comping behind Stephane's chorus on Ou Es Tu Mon Amour? It's with the whole band so some of it is hard to discern but some really cool ideas there.

Jazzaferri

What album is it on?