Looking for a used guitar - some general questions

woodamand

I hope this hasn't been covered here to death, but I looking for a used gypsy guitar in the $1000-ish range. I know it is unlikely but if I saw a used European made instrument, are they any guidelines of what makers to avoid at all costs (no pun intended)? Other than that, I am also interested in an Altimera, since everyone here seems to agree these are really good instruments for the price. Any advice most appreciated!
thanks
Dana

Jim Kaznosky

Altamira would likely be the best for that amount. Be careful of Ebay and the counterfeit guitars that are sometimes found there.

woodamand

counterfeit! man oh man!

anthon_74

you can get a new alta mira for 1K. I have one I love, and I just played an M01D model a few days ago and it sounds great too. Nice bark.

Anthony

woodamand

At this point I am leaning toward an Altamira in the "antique" finish, since I prefer the look and sound of a guitar with a thin finish. I will no doubt torture myself for sometime before I drop the hammer, since I would really like to get the MD30, although I have seen on another site an antique finish MD20 maybe not available yet, a bit more affordable than the 30. I like the idea of solid wood guitar, just don't know if I can convince myself to spend the extra dough

jonpowl

Did you see this one? http://seattle.craigslist.org/oly/msg/5089390204.html
Should be a nice starter gutar...

Stringswinger

I agree with Stuart, A good Gitane is the best Gypsy guitar you can buy for under $1500. At $1500, you can buy a used lower end Dupont, which beats any Asian made Gypsy guitar hands down. There may be some used Luthier built Gypsy guitars in the $1,000 range (Dell Arte Mexican made, Pattentote etc.), but frankly I think a good Gitane is the best bang for your buck till you can afford a lower end Dupont. Every Altamira that I have played has been overly bright. I have played a bunch of vintage Selmers and none sounded as bright and tinny as the Altamiras that I have played. YMMV

My 2 cents...

Cheers,

Marc
www.hotclubpacific.com

Nejc

I would suggest an altamira but it really depends on the personal taste. So far I have noticed that the gitanes are a bit bassier and mellower and the altamiras brighter and they have a lot more punch, but I might be wrong. Also remember that every acoustic guitar is gonna sound a bit different. I prefer buying a used guitar, since the top is usually more "open".

Michael Bauer

Dana, Rodrigo Shopis does solid-wood gypsy guitars really well. But Rodrigo's work excepted, I'd avoid them. They just aren't in the mainstream of gypsy jazz luthiery, and the ones Rodrogo doesn't make don't sound quite right to me. Laminates were actually more expensive to make in the '30s, so they were quite the high-tech thing at the time. The tradition just continued.

Oddly, I have never played an Altamira, so I can't speak about them. The signature Gitanes, like the Jorgenson models, are good starter guitars, but I would avoid any of the lesser Gitanes except the maple ones. I have never heard a bad one of those! Rather than a cheaper Gitane, you might be better off with a solid-top Cigano, which may need a setup, a better bridge, and some fret polishing, but will almost always sound better then the lower-end rosewood Gitanes, and which will save you a few hundred bucks toward your first high-end guitar down the road. I know some top-shelf players that have used Ciganos for travel. The d-holes I've played sound exceptionally good.

The Vintage Strings Manouche "Moreno" model guitar are, IMHO, the best bang for the buck in beginner guitars, but are very hard to find now. I had a Gitane Jorgenson until I got my first Manouche in 2006. The Manouche absolutely crushed every Gitane it crossed paths with. They should have; they were much more expensive guitars at the time. I owned three, and all were still being played by their current owners last time I checked. Don't mistake them for the Manouche guitars that Dell Arte (I think) put out. Those were pretty awful.

A thousand bucks can buy you a used Gitane Jorgenson or other higher-end model, as well as a Manouche Moreno or an Altamira, you can get a maple Gitane for a fair bit less, and you can likely score a Cigano for half your budget. After that, you are talking luthier-built instruments, and a whole new world will open up to you!

The best advice I can give is never spend more money on a guitar unless you can hear the difference when playing it. If you can't, save the money, and upgrade when you CAN hear the difference. If you decide to buy new, Michael is the guy to talk to. He really will try to find a guitar that fits your budget and neck preference.

Good luck in your search.

woodamand

Gents - this discussion is really helpful to me, since it give me some perspective, which I lack, since I don't know jack about manouche guitars. I am taking the laminate thoughts to heart, since one thing I don't want is to get a guitar that sounds too dull. I love my D35, but I really don't need another flat top kind of sound at all. I guess I have been reading too much on this site, and talking with Michael he is big on Altimera. I played a Gitane today, I think it was a DG-250 and it was quite a nice guitar, so much so that the owner decided to keep it. I liked the wide neck, and it seemed well built but the finish was a bit thick for my taste. It weighted more than I expected, surprising since I was under the mistaken impression that all gypsy style guitars were light weight. I was not the guitar for me, but better than I would have expected. I did see that Maple Gitane, and if I roll up to Seattle I will try and check it out.
One thing: do you go through strings like crazy on these guitars? I am used to playing with flatwounds on my archtops, and these strings seem like they could unravel quickly if you play with a lot of attack - or am I wrong on this?
Really, I would much rather get a used instrument, not just because of price but it will have settled in (of course I bought a new archtop last year, so I am anything but consistent!).
OK, maybe I can keep the GAS down a bit until I can find something used, or at least get to play enough of these to get a handle on this style of guitar - I still don't even know large or small tone whole yet - what a crazy thing to think about.

rgrice

There's a used Nomade on the forum that would beat any guitar you're considering. If you're very serious, I'd say save a bit and spend more to have an instrument you can keep. There's not a great market in my area, or likely most places, for used low end GJ guitars. I have a nice Gitane 250m, the one with maple sides and back, and it plays pretty well and sounds OK. In less than 2 years I wasn't satisfied with sound or playability and had to upgrade. I knew I was going to focus on GJ and in hindsight, should've just taken the plunge and applied the money I spent on the Gitane toward a better guitar.
I go through strings pretty fast. They're a good bit softer and they wear at frets pretty bad, especially the G string. I usually gig from 2 to 4 times a month and practice once a week with band. Strangely I use a classical guitar to practice at home as it's small, quieter, and
I don't mond leaving it out. I never get more than 2 weeks out of a set of Argentine 11s. I have adjusted my playing which have me more duration on strings. When I first started, I was breaking and wearing them out like crazy!
Good luck and keep us posted!