New Stochelo Rosenberg DVDs!!!

Jack

This whole thing just blows my mind. People seem to have such a sense of entitlement nowadays--does being unhappy with a product (especially one that comes exactly as described) really warrant going on the internet to call people names?

It's interesting to me that we aren't talking about the fact that the Waltz DVDs w/Stochelo do have TAB and standard notation, precisely because those pieces are learned almost more as classical, through-composed pieces, and are less about training your ear for improv. Maybe those would be a better fit. (Or just using the $$ to hire someone to transcribe whatever you'd like.)

(edit: Denis posted something about that while I was posting this)

BluesBop Harry

JazzDawg

The discussion about tabs being excluded is pointless - it was not advertised as having them. I'm not a great example of the best student, as I'm mostly deaf - without my hearing aids I'm completely deaf. So, I do appreciate tabs to help sort out things when I can't make them out by ear or sight. However, I have found that a lot of tabs are not really helpful either, and it really depends on who's doing them as to their quality. At some point Denis did indicate that he was going to provide tabs on the 'new site', so I'm not unhappy with the lack of tabs. I bought the DVD with that understanding. I purchased another DVD done by Denis, which had no tabs either - so if you've purchased one before and found it to be less than what you want or need - why would you bother to buy this one?

The only criticism I have is I would like to see the 'lessons' (phrases) sections broken into mp4s or some other format that makes them more accessible and allows better control of isolating them for playback and slowing down or pausing. As it is, I extract them, and convert them to do it. It's a bit tedious, and maybe that's why it wasn't done. Production costs to provide this feature may have taken the price up. So, this is not a major complaint.

I will say that I bought the DVD to mostly watch Stochelo play and try to grab whatever I could from him in the process. I've taken lessons from other folks, and you won't find many worthwhile lessons giving you more than what is provided in the DVD - also you get to play it over and over.

I would love to get to where I want to go with GJ in a few days rather than a few years, but that is not a realistic expectation. If you want to learn this style or any style, you have to practice and put the time and effort into it. It's not magic that enables the top musicians to play so well. It's practice.

I remember a story about Beethoven related to me by a classical violinist... She said during one rehearsal of the maestros pieces, the violin section complained that the score as written was too fast. Beethoven without flinching responded - then go home and practice. The point - even having something written out for you, does not enable you to play it or learn it faster without putting in the time.

Lastly, I understand that in today's economy that $60 is a lot of money to put out, that's exactly why I took the time to question why I wanted this DVD and to find out about what was included. I watched a few of the 'freebie' vids, and decided that despite not having tabs, the content was more than enough to justify my purchase. I have taken the time and effort to learn some the phrases, and I am using them - not exactly as he does, but in developing my own style. It would be somewhat easier to learn them with tabs, but that isn't going to stop me from doing it in my own way.

Phil

I’m sorry to see that this thread has taken a mean-spirited tone. If a member of this forum doesn’t like something, there’s no need to be insulting; if they’ve got an issue with someone, then don’t air your dirty laundry on the forum; simply contact that person privately. There’s no place for insults here; there’s no reason not to be civil if you have a disagreement.

We are extremely fortunate to live in a time when we have the luxury of the internet and professional players like Dennis Chang, Robin Nolan, Andreas Oberg etc.. who not only are willing to give of their time and to participate in this forum, but they readily respond to forum members’ questions and willingly help and offer support to those on the long road of learning GJ.

Not only that, due to their contacts, there’s now the availability of seeing up close and personal a DVD with one the GJ masters Stochelo Rosenberg. It might lack the tab, but so what; there’s the chance to watch the man given a personal insight into his approach to this great music. Imagine if such technology had existed back in Django’s day; what people would’ve given to see such a DVD of the man himself!! (I doubt if such film were available there’d be complaints about the lack of tab).

Not sure if there are any other forums where we’d have access to great players in their genre willing to offer free tips on how to play licks or runs, as Dennis has done on many occasions. If you look back at this forum you’ll find numerous runs and licks that Dennis has graciously tabbed out.

This music has a history of being passed down amongst the Gypsies by ear and that’s exactly how Dennis has approached this. Those who don’t like this method and are complaining about lack of tab and make insulting remarks, only show frustration with lack of their own abilities.

Gypton

When I found out there is no tab, I loved the idea- very traditional way of learning- and I'm looking forward to getting this DVD. Learning by ear you have no choice but to commit to memory. I learned Sitar in the oral tradition for a few years and thanks to that I have not forgetten phrases I learned 9 years ago.

Regardless, Smilinjack I think you're way out of line and getting too political over what was a simple debate.

blindjimmy

Since i am still learning from dennis' first soloing dvd, i wanted to ask the people who have bought the new Stochelo dvd , are there any licks or phrases that are shown at a reasonable speed, are there chapters where they are not playing songs but actually showing the licks to the camera? I have read the pdoduct description on the website, and i'm ool with no transcriptions, this approach of learning by ear and watching the fingers has helped me imensely , i learn tunes from watching other people much faster than ever before . Would you recomend Dennis' second soloing dvd or the stochelo dvd ? BTW , hey Dennis, thanks for putting this stuff on the market ! There seems to be some very detailed customer feedback here which could guide the development and format of your projects in the future .

smilinjack

Dear "BlindJimmy",
Quoting "Jack", Who is a Forum Moderator:

Report this postReply with quoteRe: New Stochelo Rosenberg DVDs!!!
by Jack » Wed Dec 16, 2009 2:46 pm

"I would also like Denis to come and play my parts at all my gigs. This thing is a total rip-off otherwise."

JazzDawg

are there any licks or phrases that are shown at a reasonable speed, are there chapters where they are not playing songs but actually showing the licks to the camera?

Yes, there are 29 phrase listed on a menu. Actually,Stochelo plays variations of them, as well, so you get more than 29. I haven't actually been through the whole DVD yet, so I lost count. The tempo varies from breakneck Stochelo 'normal' ramming speed to slower passages that mere humans can grasp.

Check out this example from YouTube - it's from the DVD. In this one, he demostrates 'phrase 18'. The others follow a similar pattern of action, so you can judge whether it would be helpful to you or not. I extract them, and then I can slow them down or pause them while I learn them. It's just easier for me.
http://www.youtube.com/cminor7b5#p/u/0/NjhfoZQL1cU

And here's 'phrase 17' from the DVD...

http://www.youtube.com/cminor7b5#p/u/1/C2qZ8gpRfA4

I think the camera angles are nicely done, but you can certainly judge for yourself, as these clips are typical examples of the content on the DVD.

Would you recomend Dennis' second soloing dvd or the stochelo dvd ?

Well, I don't have Denis' DVDs on improvistation (hoping Santa comes thru). I guess, it would depend on what your goals are, and where you are at in your learning curve. I've been playing for quite some time, though new to GJ. I decided to get the Stochelo DVDs before the others because I love the way he plays, and just wanted sit back and watch him play up close and personal. I find a lot of the sections where he's playing GJ songs interesting, and just amazing - though when he 'slows' down on those songs, it's still pretty darn fast. I think he really on has 2 'gears' when he's playing 'turbo' and 'super turbo'. You might find those sections a bit demanding to learn from just watching, without extracting them and slowing them down further. I, personally, enjoy his playing whatever speed, I'm just not trying to learn everything he does on this part of the DVD as much as try to get my head around how he approaches a tune and improvisation. The 'In The Style of' DVDs are more advanced study aids, but you can still get a lot out of them if you take the time to work with them.

Now, Denis' DVDs may be better suited to getting more of the vocabulary of GJ style in your head and hands, which will pay off when the time comes to wail with others.

The value in the Stochelo DVDs for me is having a resource that lets me watch this master at work on my own schedule. I wish I had a similar one with Django - don't you?

Don't be put off by 'smilinjacks' vents. If you are expecting tabs to go along with the content, this DVD does not have them. If you want a DVD that displays and demonstrates the style of Stochelo, then this is worth the price, in my opinion.

Jack

smilinjack wrote:

Dear "BlindJimmy",
Quoting "Jack", Who is a Forum Moderator:

Report this postReply with quoteRe: New Stochelo Rosenberg DVDs!!!
by Jack » Wed Dec 16, 2009 2:46 pm

"I would also like Denis to come and play my parts at all my gigs. This thing is a total rip-off otherwise."

Jack, tell me you're kidding. You can't possibly believe I was being serious, can you? That for the price of the DVD I expect Denis to travel to the US and play my parts for me at my gigs, and that otherwise I'm being ripped off??

Listen, I get that you're feeling like you didn't get what you wanted--I don't know if you remember, but we also talked about lessons with Stephane W. once when you came to a gig of mine, and you had the same attitude about those...he was trying to get you to focus on some fundamentals, and you wanted to learn some specific licks; when he said you needed to learn one before the other your take on it (as you said) was "F*** you, I'm paying for this, and you'll teach me what I want."

That's your right, of course, but a teacher has choices too--I've dropped students in the past because they can't commit to a program. And Denis, too, has the right to teach as he sees fit, even if it means some potential students won't be happy. In the end, I can't imagine that you're going to find anything even close to Denis' stuff without spending hundreds or even thousands of dollars--and even then, what are you going to do? You could live with Stochelo for a month, play for hours every day, and still not come away with a bit of written music. Would you then complain about that? Wouldn't you then wish for a DVD that you could rewind, slow down, and transcribe?

Frankly, this whole thing seems sad and ridiculous to me. I hope you find someone who will provide exactly what you want, whenever you want it, whatever that is.

best,
Jack.

smilinjack

Jack My Friend,
This unfortunately has turned into a Philosophical debate.
And despite the fact that I happen to really dig Stephane's playing and listen to him
all the time, My position still stands! Although, I think you have exercized poor judgement in making out private conversation available for Public consumption on this forum.
It's your perogative of course to structure a teaching regimin as You see fit but at the end of the day it's still about the "Do Re Mi".
Your students are buying your time and expertise.
Someone lacking in fundementals naturally has to be tutored through rudimentary elements of playing.
Teachers in general, especially College professors get away with this crap all the time without haveing to account for their actions while getting tiffany prices for imparting opinons as opposed to facts. And then have the luxury of hiding behind some crap called "Tenure"!
I also have taken lessons with Kruno Spisic, who besides being a great,Great player, is a gentleman and pragmatic. He showed Me exactly what I wanted to know, while simultaneously giving me insight to technique. Unfortunately, He is two hours away and has a successful business, so it's not always that easy to get together with him.
I tell You what: I'll throw the gauntlet down by offering free web space for a minimum of one year for Dennis to post transcriptions.
I'm not talking about some grade B hosting service, but a legitimate domain with the name of his choosing.
I have an existing online business and have constructed over two hundred pages by My own hand.
He can have complete control over the content so long as it's free of anything besides Music.
He can even promote his DVDs if he chooses.
I don't think I will be taken up on this though.

Best Regards,
Jack