Rhythm, wetness, Gitane DG-300

Passacaglia

I realize this might be lost in another thread - because it was a fairly significant discovery for me, I thought I'd post it here (originally in the FAQ section). To those who might think, "well, duh, Paul," apologies in advance...but for me, it was quite a thing, between hitting a breakthrough and really hearing and feeling the limits of my starter guitar. Original post follows:

Michael Horowitz wrote:

Your are experiencing two of the big flaws you find in lower grade instruments:

1) Ringing or "wetness" is pretty much ubiquitous on the Asian guitars. The 200 series Gitanes are probably the worst. The Ciganos and the 300 series Gitanes are better, but still have some of it. The nicer European stuff like Favino, Dupont, Hahl, etc is much drier and cleaner without all the overtone ringing and echo.

2) Playability problems are also a big issue with the Asian stuff. If you spend a lot of $ on setup you can fix some of the neck, fret, and bridge issues but even then I've never seen an Asian guitar with the ultra smooth playability of the higher grade instruments.

The Sagas are still great for the money, but they certainly have some issues.

'm

Old post, but after a phenomenal hour last night with Adrian Holovaty via webcam (I found Adrian to be a GREAT teacher, as well as a wonderful player...my bow of appreciation goes to the man, for some solid things to work on, and for his generosity in the youtube vids over the years), I can say, I finally hear this. I have spent several hours today as taskmaster to myself, slowing way down and working rhythm; uncompromising on ensuring fingered notes are voiced cleanly, evenly, and muted strings are fully muted; muting beats 1 and 3 cleanly and completely, and the percussive beats 2 and 4 are fully percussive.

It's a real breakthrough. That said, now I hear the intrinsic "wet" nature of my DG-300. I have loved this guitar, appreciate its tone and volume, what it's given me over a lot of hours. But I hear the ringing, even when fully muted, and though I've tried several things - cork under the tailpiece, shoelace-intertwining of the strings, cloth under the insert, etc. - not "cured" this wetness. Not oppressive, but now that I have really gotten down to the nitty gritty, it's quite noticeable.

Additionally, after DIJ, when I played awhile in Michael Bauer's guitar Eden and played a Favino-fils (sorry, Michael, can't remember the exact guitar), I can appreciate what playability can mean. Might be nice I began on this 300, but the playability feels, well, tougher now, when compared to what I know is out there.

Conclusion now, just means I'm sniffing for a drier and more "playable" beast. Glad, too, to finally hear and feel this very clearly. It takes some of us awhile.

Jazzaferri

Warning Warning. GAS ATTACK :twisted:

Dinna worrit yersel man..... Happens inta best o families.

Passacaglia

I..tried....I really (sniff) tried....but the GAS got to me, man. I got a fever, and the only cure is more cowbell. Er....

Ian Rossiter

Yeah, I'm about ready to unload my 300. I swear, it gets harder to play as time goes on. I see an upgrade in my future.

Passacaglia

After wrestling all day with downstroke only, and subtle-upstroke in the manner of Hono, of course, I'm perseverating on the meaning of GAS.

It can mean, I'm ready to try an upgrade in guitar.

Or, it can mean, Go Abroad Syndrome. I find it afflicts when I consider what several grand can go towards - a great guitar, playing in my room with BiaB, here in the States, or...my workhorse loyal 300, ground to the nub with practice in Paris, (or Toulouse...Kamlo...) under the tutelage of a Master.

:?:

Jazzaferri

Decisions, decisions. The question that I would be thinking on, is the guitar holding you back? If you are at the stage where you need a more repsonsive instrument, then if you stick with the lesser instrument, that will hold you back.

The inspiration of a decent guitar, and the lessons it can teach you, is important. There comes a time in the life of any musician who wants to get to a really proficient level, where the question of an instrument that doesnt hold one back has to be given due consideration.

Jeff Moore

If like me your at that point where you couldn't even be sure your playing the guitar you will love when your first playing it, where many sound great, but your ear doesn't easily hear all the good stuff and nuance. Don't do like me and buy and sell till you've learned.
If you have some ideas about choices in sound that your pretty sure of: Save up $5-6000, and wait. Time is your friend and 3-4 times a year different unbelievably good guitars at very good prices come through this site. It could be anything, but a several of the new builders are turning out gems with various sound characteristics, but gems in their own way. Whether you like the Busato direct sound or the smoky Selmer, or something in between or a little different all together. It's coming, but mostly in that price range or a little less.
I've bought many guitars from Michael. He knows the sounds and is the best of only two people I know (I don't get around that much) who can steer you well towards a great guitar. There are few people on this planet who've seen more of great guitars passing through. It is the only way I can imagine to form a larger picture of what is actually out there, as well as how good this one is vs that one for "these" attributes.
There is no single holy grail. I've owned a couple grails and you have to pick your flavor in these things, unless you can buy several!
Unless you trust yourself to know the field (a huge undertaking in itself), you must trust someone else to help.

Passacaglia

Thank you both, excellent food to chew on. I was so geeked by the discovery - the first taste, really, of something I've been working pretty hard on, the true rhythm sound I was seeking - and subsequently the intrinsic nature of the 300, that I think I might have leapt early.

My lead playing proceeds apace, but I am far from any milestone in that realm - working Jack Soref's excellent manual from DIJ (MAN - this little sleeper is incredibly well done, in my opinion - CAGED approach, just making color notes very easy to reference on the fly, while playing...theory guys will find it painfully obvious, but it was nice to have it handed in this way. Jack is an excellent teacher); working S. Wrembel's book and waltzes; staying in light touch with D. Givone's text.

Which is to say, after calming down from first flush, I wonder if I'm being way too GASsy and premature about all this. With finite sums yearly, I sincerely wonder whether it'd be a better move to take this DG-300 to France, and live there with my family (my wife has her EU citizenship) for 6 months to a year, studying intensively; and play as many luthier-built guitars as I can get my hands on, bringing one back with me, perhaps. This former French chef can find something to do with his hands.

I know there's no easy answer, and there never is.

Unless you trust yourself to know the field (a huge undertaking in itself), you must trust someone else to help.

Aptly said. Such a truism, Jeff. I'm really grateful to have a couple of Michael's in our community. Michael H. has always provided an excellent service, and drooling over his guitar offerings has been no different. Michael B., too, is a generous guy with mountains of expertise on guitars, vintage to modern makes. I'm looking forward to going to my old haunt (Chicago) to hang with him, and hearing Alfonso once again.

Jeff Moore

If you practice like an idiot on any guitar, all that learning will translate and get further expressed on a great one almost like you'd always had the great one to practice on. So as long as your working out hard and happy enough doing it, you can wait till you know more about who you are as a player and what kind of axe will best slay your particular dragons.

Having a lump sum in the bank can give me GAS, also the thrill of having new sounds to play with. For decades I learned on and loved my fender pure plywood dreadnaught. So now I also get GAS thinking about how I can make up for lost time for having loved a dime store guitar so long.

Jazzaferri

One thing is certain in my mind, that going and playing and studying with a bunch of GJ players in France, or Holland would give you a depth of insight and experience that would change you musically forever.

Passacaglia

Thanks, guys. I do appreciate your words, as you've walked this path before me, and walked it longer. I was quite moved by my experience at DIJ, and, coming from a background of discipleship, of traditional apprenticeship (uchideshi to shihan, master), I guess even at my age, the old bones are hungering for more of this experience. I hear you, and appreciate your sharing your time and thoughts.

Paul