Rhythm, wetness, Gitane DG-300

Jazzaferri

Well, IMO the more one plays incorrectly, the harder it is to unlearn that and play correctly.

So the choice is yours, take a month off an get the rhythm down right, because once you have it down right the other songs will be fine too. If not you dont have it down. Its that simple. AND you get to choose. Remember the goal is to play it right without any conscious thought.

But slow way down, get the right hand working absolutely right on the downstroke WITH relaxed control....then add in some simple changes.... again downstroke only...and start to build up speed. By the end of a week approx 10-15 hours you should have this down, If you are focussing on the right things

Week two start working on the left hand. Slowly slowly, try muting working from the end of the beat before you lift the fingers to all the way to lifting as you play really dry. once you have it completely under control start building up speed again. Shouldnt take you more than another 10 - 15 hours.

After that,starting slowly,and building up to speed on your set list. By the end of the month if you have done this slowly and patiently waiting til you have got in down before moving up. That doesnt mean playing it a few times right, it means effortless mastery level.

A month and you will be back at the jams and people will be wanting to play with you cuz your rhythm SWINGS.
8)

Jazzaferri

Forgot to add, when you are playing really dry ahave your wife put her hand gently on the tailpiece and see what effect that has on ringing.

Passacaglia

Jazzaferri wrote:

Well, IMO the more one plays incorrectly, the harder it is to unlearn that and play correctly.

So the choice is yours, take a month off an get the rhythm down right, because once you have it down right the other songs will be fine too. If not you dont have it down. Its that simple. AND you get to choose. Remember the goal is to play it right without any conscious thought.

But slow way down, get the right hand working absolutely right on the downstroke WITH relaxed control....then add in some simple changes.... again downstroke only...and start to build up speed. By the end of a week approx 10-15 hours you should have this down, If you are focussing on the right things

Week two start working on the left hand. Slowly slowly, try muting working from the end of the beat before you lift the fingers to all the way to lifting as you play really dry. once you have it completely under control start building up speed again. Shouldnt take you more than another 10 - 15 hours.

After that,starting slowly,and building up to speed on your set list. By the end of the month if you have done this slowly and patiently waiting til you have got in down before moving up. That doesnt mean playing it a few times right, it means effortless mastery level.

A month and you will be back at the jams and people will be wanting to play with you cuz your rhythm SWINGS.
8)

Really not much to say, but yep. Of course, you're right, Jay, there is no way out but through, and through, properly. Thanks, buddy.

Oh, and as regards my wife's hand on my tailpiece....is that really necessary to good playing?

Passacaglia

Been thinking about things. I had an extraordinary online lesson with Denis, and reflecting on what I got there, and on his approach as I've come to know it....there's really no other way to say it, but that I've been nipping merely around this for years; turning to the life within this music, and drawing from it in a living way: experiential, again, no easy way out, but through.

Passacaglia

This is an old thread, but after having a phenomenal jam last night with our usual suspects, and some honored guests, man do I see, hear and feel what it is to work with a guitar that "suits" oneself. I rarely have the chance to hear my guitar, as I'm always playing it. Last night, among the friends that played with us was Christo Ruppenthal, bandleader of the Caravan GJ ensemble, and gifted player. He played my DG-300 and let me play his Dell Arte Macias-Favino, and I was immediately blown away. It might be because I'm a pretty big guy, and even for my height, have long arms, so the larger bout felt more comfortable; but there's no denying the moment I brushed the strings, there was a whole other world going on.

I understand, it's the player, not the gear. But at some point, it does seem to me, you hear and feel things differently. If I were to make a general comment, my DG-300 is a cannon; loud; brash; sometimes, so much so, that literally certain struck notes actually, physically punch the auditor's ear in a painful way (at least mine). Also, if wetness isn't the right descriptor, a kind of "goofiness" in the blend of sound I hear coming out.

Compared to the Dell Arte; playability is much poorer. The moment I played the Dell Arte, it felt easy, light, and more, all the work I've put into rhythm suddenly seemed to come out so much more, at least by my ears - a dryness, a crunch, a very crisp "report" to played strings.

I'm not trying to overpaint this - after all, I saw a clip of young manouche kids playing the hell out of no-name guitars, just using their thumbs for picks - but this really was a discovery for me. I was basically too shy to even go Michael B.'s room at DIJ, so have never actually spent time with any other guitar, besides my DG-300. I'm grateful to have such an instrument - but man, after last night, I've got the scent of blood in my nose, you know what I mean?

Jazzaferri

For me ere is nothing in this world like a responsive,easily played guitar. One that has the flexibility to do what one wants. I much prefer them to the one trick pony concept but that is just me and lots of others might think differently.

Glad you got a different perspective Paul. I have played through MB's collection and can make some noises on all of them. A few were sublime in their responsiveness though. Easy to play as they told me what notes I should be playing, I just had to listen to what they said.

Passacaglia

Thanks Jay, I respect you and your thoughts mean a lot to me.

Mind-blowing to me that it was so palpable, and so immediate. Something that just felt right in my arms and hands, against my experience with a guitar that has done yeoman's service - really, appreciate this little beast, and what I've learned from it - but feeling Chris's guitar, and its response to me....I understand now, what you say here, Jay.

Much appreciated.

Paul

mikegnik

Paul,

I haven't looked over this thread since I followed last, so pardon me if this was already exhausted.

Do you play with your thumb wrapped around to the fingerboard or do you avoid this practice? The thing is, you will get no harmonics if you manage to touch the strings with two fingers at once, one being the thumb. I suspect this is not the only factor at play here, but if you play the common 5x455x shape for Am6 in say, Minor swing for example, the 5th fret on your low E string will be harmonic laden. Touching it with the thumb as well as the 2nd finger will completely kill those harmonics. The other strings are easier to touch with several fingers in many shapes used in GJ to my observation.

I thought of this thread recently and was glad it popped up again to remind me to toss that out there.
-Mike

Passacaglia

Hey Mike -

Not sure if you're asking, do I use thumb shapes, or, using thumb shapes, do I wrap it around, so that it acts as a kind of dampener? If the former, I play a lot of thumb shapes, really don't do m6's, etc., in the5x455 shape (though I do a lot of 7ths, 9ths, for example, using that shape). If the latter, thanks, will take a look at what I do.

I've worked pretty hard on rhythm - been my sole work for a while now, and I don't feel like I've tapped rung one (that's not a bad thing - I can easily foresee devoting the rest of my life to rhythm). It's not that the 300 sucks - god knows, as Denis once said, the 95% was (and is) definitely me, and not the guitar - it was just a kind of instant, pretty profound sensory/experiential thing - like all the rhythm work I put into my Gitane, felt very, very right on this Dell Arte, and from what I could hear, playing it, there was an almost immediate affinity of sound and the feel I was getting (Chris may or may not concur ). Everything loosened up, my wrist, fingers, inner rhythm just felt at ease, and I took a kind of pleasure I've not felt before. I know this sounds hoaky. Truthfully, and I wouldn't have said this even a week ago, based on those spare minutes with Chris's beautiful guitar, I feel there's a guitar, several guitars out there, I'm sure, that are just, for want of a better word, "right."

Jazzaferri

There are those that say its all the player, and in one sense they are right.

However, for someone who is past the very basics having a guitar that is very responsive is a much better teacher than one that is not responsive.

I have heard lots of acoustic players in this and other genres for whom the concept of musical dynamics appears to be a completely foreign idea. If you have to beat the poor thing to death just to get it to sound right, how the heck does one play a crescendo or follow a climactic run with a quiet reflective few notes.