Rhythm, wetness, Gitane DG-300

dennis · July 2012

i haven't read the entire thread so i might be missing a few things; but if you're concerned about your guitar affecting the sound of your rhythm playing.. DON'T!

a good guitar is great to have, of course; but 80% of the sound comes from the hands... the rest is just icing on the cake.... you put icing on a piece of dog shit, it 's still dog shit hahahaha

i have tons of gypsy friends and have been to their homes on and off over the last 10 yrs... before aria and gitane made those affordable guitars, VERY few of them owned actual selmer style guitars, they all played noname steel string or nylon string guitars.... paulus schafer and his cousin sendelo were playing on piece of crap arhctop guitars until they bought gitanes just a few years ago...

check out these kids playing on anything but selmer guitars, the dude on the right is even playing with his fingers and listen to his pompe... it's all in the fingers!!!

Passacaglia · July 2012

Hahahha - well, that seals it. I give up.

Uh, I meant to say, yeah, I realize the GAS I gotta fill has nothing to do with a magic guitar that will cure what ails me. Wow, thanks, Dennis. I'm working back and forth between Gonzalo's rhythm tone and Hono's early lessons (that upstroke switch) on your site...buzzes and sloppiness in both sounding and left hand muting is something I glossed over before, but can't any longer. I'd like to capture Hono's perfection in upstroke rhythm style, but am working downstroke only, slowly, painstakingly.

Adrian Holovaty tossed a book title my way, "The Talent Code," and among the other things I find fascinating is how much good practice - what the book calls "deep practice" - can literally aid in physiological wiring of skill, and how much just learning 50ish tunes, with a relatively anemic, trebly and uneven rhythm tone, merely wires a wrong tone. Hammering away for hours 3/4 engaged on pompe as an endurance exercise more than slowing down, and intense focus on the small bits...it may be obvious to most, if not all; but amazing to me how subtly it can creep into one's playing.

Anyway, thanks, Dennis, and all, once again. Looking in the right corner helps, and in this case, I've miles to go on my 300. Like, a continent and an ocean.

Jim Kaznosky · July 2012

Ahh...intentional practice. Yup. I'm headed down that road myself.

Tele295 · July 2012

What causes the "wetness" anyway? Is it the finish? The tailpiece? The wood?

I remember someone on the board taking the poly finish off a MusicLink Dell'Arte RN-1, and then refinning with French polish. That was quite a difference, IIRC.

Jazzaferri · July 2012

Most of ne books on practicing say to practice REALLY slowly for a reason

When i was learning latin rhythms i had to slow down to fiftyish bpm working pick hand up and down over strings in a steady metronome driven way and learn to get the various rhythmic things happening on the left hand. Hours an hours and hours. No wonder I hate metronomes now and use biab

Gypsy style lain stuff is quite a bit simpler thankfully.

Passacaglia · July 2012

I'm afraid I grew somewhat complacent, Jay - acquiring a decent jam list, but like Gonzalo says in one of the lessons on Denis's site, "people are hearing, but they're not really listening." (I paraphrase - any misapprehensions mine - and Gonzalo doesn't exclude himself, seems to say it's a thing one can contend with throughout one's career). I wasn't listening to the true chasm between what I produce, and what I want to produce (in my case, Hono is someone I admire very much, among several others). So I have to go back now, and do what you're talking about - today was pretty elementary, careful listening, slow playing, mistakes, refinement and immediate correction, and over again.

Jazzaferri · July 2012

:?

I see lots ofplayers who kinda know a whole bunch of songs. Not so common to find those that know their repertoire really deeply to the point of :shock: groan oh o not again ......effortless mastery

To put things into perspectivevthough i have watched Nousche struggle a bit at first when Stochelo was showing him some new rythm he had worked out. I only know a few guys who can chord pretty much anything thrown their way

Passacaglia · July 2012

Jazzaferri wrote:

Most of ne books on practicing say to practice REALLY slowly for a reason

When i was learning latin rhythms i had to slow down to fiftyish bpm working pick hand up and down over strings in a steady metronome driven way and learn to get the various rhythmic things happening on the left hand. Hours an hours and hours. No wonder I hate metronomes now and use biab

Gypsy style lain stuff is quite a bit simpler thankfully.

Well, not only am I cooling my jets and slowing way down, but my practice routine just got a whole lot simpler.

Tele295 wrote:

What causes the "wetness" anyway? Is it the finish? The tailpiece? The wood?

I remember someone on the board taking the poly finish off a MusicLink Dell'Arte RN-1, and then refinning with French polish. That was quite a difference, IIRC.

Tele, I wish I could offer why, but will have to leave that up to others better armed technically. I can tell you my 300 rings, even with my left hand fully muting across all strings. It emanates from behind the bridge. Interlacing shoestring, etc., didn't do anything.

I did consider stripping and refinishing, but my luthier friend told me that in terms of cost, I'd likely be looking at about the same, or more, than what I paid for the guitar to begin with. He did recommend another luthier with more experience in guitars (my friend concentrates in violins, cellos, etc.), and I am looking into it. I don't mind going this way, but would hate to find out that sinking $$ is merely trying to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear....you know? Hence, why I was originally thinking of just another guitar. But I've obviously got a lot more issues ahead of this one....

Jazzaferri · July 2012

I have been reflecting on this thread for a bit. I think some of the wet vs dry sound is in technique and some as Was stated earlier is in the guitar.

When Michael Dunn and I were discussing what i wanted for my 100 anniversary DR guitar, (most of which was about the neck shape). He told me that his goal was to make the most responsive instrument he could, given the wood choices the customer made.

What i can say for sure that a very responsive guitar, will tell you way more firmly if your technique is sloppy or indecisive, or anything else. I beleive it also responds better to the suble nuances in one's playing, both in dynamics and attack. I jest with Michael in semi humourous, semi serious way of putting that the guitar tells me what to play.

When i played through Michael Bauer's collection, i found myself preferring the more responsive of his guitars.