Lets write a fake book together

AJATango · September 2007

I agree with the last three posts

Chris Peterson · September 2007

robertsaunders wrote:

Jack wrote:

One thing I'd rather NOT see is a 'chord book' that encourages people to play the same shapes over and over for any given chord...

best,
Jack.

Me either—that would seem very limiting.

BTW probably everybody has seen Major 7th chords indicated by a triangle instead of a "Maj." It's shorter, but to me always seemed kind of hokey. I'm curious how it's regarded inside the music industry.

It's a huge no-no. Using the triangle, circle, and circle with a line through it is strictly amateur stuff. The goal of any copyist is to make a chart easy to read (duh). When you read a chart quickly, there is no real difference between those 3 shapes. It's basically the same argument against the M and m for major and minor. If reading quickly, it is possible to make big errors unnecessarily.

BluesBop Harry · September 2007

OK, so what about
- m (or-)for minor
- nothing for Major (just the letter name)
- m7b5 (or -m7b5) for half diminished
- 7 after the letter name for dominants.

We would need to define the symbol for minor, - or m?
Dominant chords are open to extensions for the players that know how to handle them, otherwise just the seventh is good, better too little than too much right? Maybe 9th's could work but ...
Likewise for major, most people will add 6th's and 9th's according to their tastes and for minor, I think is almost always a minor6 unless it's a II (as in II-V) in a progression, and even then some players will change it for a sixth chord.

I'm for "Vanilla changes" all the way.
Triads will work everytime. When I saw Angelo Debarre at DFLA his rhythm player Tchavolo Hassan played mostly triad voicings and sounded Amazing, killer timekeeping of course, but leaving the upper extensions open for whatever Angelo wished to play, seemed to work really nicely.

Personally when I'm reading a chart, complicated stuff just gets in the way. I like it as simple as posible, just the basic chords and after a couple of choruses I usually figure out which voicings to play and which extensions can work with each and where can I add (or take away) chords.

I think is up to the players not to play the same voicings every time and where and when to add the little frills.
We could include page with a little chord form dictionary to provide a wider variety of basic voicings.

From my point of view we should think about doing a book for us (the people already into the style) first, and it should be about the tunes mostly.
Just my opinion ,
What do you think??

BluesBop Harry · September 2007

Here's a little example of what I imagine a song could look like:

BluesBop Harry · September 2007

I used Sibelius 3, which has the same jazz handwritten font as Finale, I believe.

AJATango · September 2007

not quite. Finale's jazz font is a bit different than Sibelius. I think having 'just' major chords is a mistake that's turning it into a folk song. We've at least got to use 6ths. remember this isn't being created for guitarists alone. if we want it to be looked at seriously we have to speak a complex enough language,. Dumbing it down for lack of a better term, makes it a beginner book. To be useful to all instruments playing GJ this has to be harmonically advanced without being harmonically over complicated. we can alway suggest upper extensions.

robertsaunders · September 2007

I agree. I'm for keeping things as simple as possible, but also with the caveat that we not get too elementary. Django was a jazz musician, so if he played a D6/9 chord, I want to know it and not just do a D major chord. I love the variety of subtle voicings that emerge from a chart accurately conveying the nuances Django intended. Those make his music unique to me.

On the other hand, since a rhythm player's job is to provide a foil for the soloist, a good (and self-effacing) rhythm player will often *reduce* a chord to its bare essentials to let the soloist decide for himself what extensions to add and explore a wider range of harmonic possibilities without fear of conflicting with the rhythm player's decisions. So if what's written on the chart is the full chord Django played including the extension, the musicians can pull out of it what they need. Just my angle on it.

A.K. Kibben · September 2007

One of the most useful possessions a musician can have is a Fake Book. The concise, one-line music notation consisting of melody, lyrics, and chord symbols acts as a "musical shorthand" that makes it possible to have hundreds of songs in just one book. As a reference guide to "Fake" arrangements or for singing purposes. An invaluable resource. A road map.
There are so many different ways that musicians arrange a composition that no two are a like in many cases. As far as "Vanilla" a relatively competent musician knows and hears when a dominant or minor should, could or would be embellished with flat, raise, 6,7,9,11,13, half diminished etc etc. Passing chords come with time and a lot of listening to other musicians is critical in developing your chosen arrangement and chord voicings... To ii V, or not ii V, that is the question... My head changes are not always the same when a player is soloing...
I have the privilege to be performing with 4 musicians that are all monster players and arrangers... When singers perform with us we often don't play the "standard" GJ changes...
I prefer the Vanilla chord symbols, easier to read on the fly at Djams...
I "hear" the chord voicings I need to play rather than reading a long chord symbol... Just what works for me...

I have compiled (put together ) all my Fake Books throughout the years on two DVD Disks of 26+ books... PDF...
Here goes...
Real Book 1, 2+3 (880 pages)
New Real Book 1, 2+3 (1398 pages)
Jazz Helper (37 pages)
Colorado Cookbook (292)
Bill Evans (106)
Jazz Fake (447)
Jazz LTD (402)
Library (217)
Tom Jobim 1,2+3 (259)
Real Vocal (493)
The Book (514)
Cuban Fake (195)
557 Standards (457)
Real Book Blues (303)
Firehouse Dixieland (778)
Latin Fake (591)
Pat Metheny (448)
Disney (240)
Fake Book Bass (59)
Plus a "Hot Club of Tucson" Fake Book #1 compiled by Matt Mitchell (110) Book two has been started...

All easy reference on my 'puter hard drive to print when needed...Pretty cool! Even a master index on a few of them!

Ones that I have purchased stay in my archive out of respect to all the Gypsy Jazzers and others earning a part of their living through contribution to Fake Books. Robin, Michael, Cosimini, Romane, Angelo, Greg, Pat, Walt and my good friend DR...

I sent Chris a lot of this collection to use in the Fake Book Quest, cuz I still haven't figured out how to attach some of these bloody charts on DB...

A.K.

robertsaunders · September 2007

You know who I think has great discretion as to when to simplify and when to add flavor is Michael Horowitz. His books and lessons (and Andrew Lawrence's charts) with their chord analyses are what first revealed the unique character of Django's and other gypsies' playing to me (and I've known of Django for easily 30 years).

I avoid being doctrinaire though and acknowledge the need for an easy read sometimes. To me it all depends on the situation, A.K., and I hear where you're coming from. I revere simplicity. Take Minor Swing: I prefer just the minor chords plain and simple without a half-diminished extension. That's because I first learned it that way and it sounded just fine. I'll try out the latter, though, and see what it sounds like. I like to stay flexible and remain open.

AJATango · September 2007

A.K. Kibben wrote:

One of the most useful possessions a musician can have is a Fake Book. The concise, one-line music notation consisting of melody, lyrics, and chord symbols acts as a "musical shorthand" that makes it possible to have hundreds of songs in just one book. As a reference guide to "Fake" arrangements or for singing purposes. An invaluable resource. A road map.
There are so many different ways that musicians arrange a composition that no two are a like in many cases. As far as "Vanilla" a relatively competent musician knows and hears when a dominant or minor should, could or would be embellished with flat, raise, 6,7,9,11,13, half diminished etc etc. Passing chords come with time and a lot of listening to other musicians is critical in developing your chosen arrangement and chord voicings... To ii V, or not ii V, that is the question... My head changes are not always the same when a player is soloing...
I have the privilege to be performing with 4 musicians that are all monster players and arrangers... When singers perform with us we often don't play the "standard" GJ changes...
I prefer the Vanilla chord symbols, easier to read on the fly at Djams...
I "hear" the chord voicings I need to play rather than reading a long chord symbol... Just what works for me...

I have compiled (put together ) all my Fake Books throughout the years on two DVD Disks of 26+ books... PDF...
Here goes...
Real Book 1, 2+3 (880 pages)
New Real Book 1, 2+3 (1398 pages)
Jazz Helper (37 pages)
Colorado Cookbook (292)
Bill Evans (106)
Jazz Fake (447)
Jazz LTD (402)
Library (217)
Tom Jobim 1,2+3 (259)
Real Vocal (493)
The Book (514)
Cuban Fake (195)
557 Standards (457)
Real Book Blues (303)
Firehouse Dixieland (778)
Latin Fake (591)
Pat Metheny (448)
Disney (240)
Fake Book Bass (59)
Plus a "Hot Club of Tucson" Fake Book #1 compiled by Matt Mitchell (110) Book two has been started...

All easy reference on my 'puter hard drive to print when needed...Pretty cool! Even a master index on a few of them!

Ones that I have purchased stay in my archive out of respect to all the Gypsy Jazzers and others earning a part of their living through contribution to Fake Books. Robin, Michael, Cosimini, Romane, Angelo, Greg, Pat, Walt and my good friend DR...

I sent Chris a lot of this collection to use in the Fake Book Quest, cuz I still haven't figured out how to attach some of these bloody charts on DB...

A.K.